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> But at Ridejoy, we’re not just a team, we’re a family, and families eat together. LOL no. I have a family. I don't need a second one. I also have friends.

by carguy1983 14y ago

> But at Ridejoy, we’re not just a team, we’re a family, and families eat together. LOL no. I have a family. I don't need a second one. I also have friends. I don't need a second set of friends either. Pay your employees fairly and treat them to a weekly team lunch at a good restaurant. Also fancy dinners when something really awesome gets accomplished. This is what 99% of people want - people with their own lives and tastes and preferences and schedules and social obligations. Also, the implication of a Happiness Manager is that you're working to satisfy their happiness requirements. This is so misguided it's not even funny.

jasonshen 14y ago
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I totally respect your preferences and it sounds like you might not enjoy working at Ridejoy. That's fine - it's certainly not for everyone. We've found our company morale increasing after implementing group dinners and while we can't directly prove a boost in productivity, we believe there is a link. We thought we'd share what we're learning with HN. Not sure where you got your "99% of people want" stat but if it's true, then I guess we're looking for that 1%
- carguy1983 14y ago
  WARNING: RANT MODE ON. So what happens when you need to have a serious talk with someone for screwing up and everyone's in a terrible mood afterwards? Do you expect them to also join you at dinner? Or is their punishment that they have to pretend to be happy for the happiness manager? Or is their punishment that they don't get to join you, banished to a microwave meal at home while everyone else sings and dances and eats grass fed sustainably raised mutton raised in a westward-sloping Polyface-esque agrarian paradise just north of Petaluma, served on a bed of organic microgreens and wilted white kale and drinks low sulfide wine from the Willamette Valley with just a hint of raspberries on the nose and a dry finish with notes of oak and lavender? Or does the 1% you're looking for also not ever make mistakes, and gets along perfectly all the time, just like a real family? The thing about these kinds of blog posts is that they are thinly disguised recruiting / marketing efforts and inexperienced people take them as some sort of gospel - nobody ever talks about the time when the team is at each others' throats because someone (or everyone) fucked something critical up and lost $50k and 2 months of work, or petty workplace politics or sexual / drinking / druggie relationships or any of that - which always creep into this sort of hippy dippy communal meals big extended family type stuff and really just adds more trouble than it's really worth. I've worked exclusively at startups since 1999 and let me tell you, this shit happens. It all happens, all the time. People throw words at each other. People cuss and get into disagreements, people fuck up, people are very serious about very serious things, especially when TONS of money is involved. Like MILLIONS of dollars of owner and investor money. What this is - is corporate bullshit dressed up as culture, and it's fucking flabbergasting to me that it's making its way into startups!!!
  - littledude 14y ago
    lots of startups eat together, look into zerocater and how they started their whole business around this concept. even ycombinator has big dinners with multiple startups regularly. it's not uncommon at all and accepted at good practice by lots of companies. i don't understand why you're making this out to be some negative experience.
    - carguy1983 14y ago
      It's simply not scaleable, and shouldn't be a goal for a startup - if it happens naturally, great everyone loves each other, but it shouldn't be somebody's job description to organize this sort of thing with an implication of alienation if one doesn't partake. As a company grows larger people are not going to be cooking for each other and the boss isn't going to spend $1k a day on lunch and dinner.
      - rdl 14y ago
        $1k/day for lunch and dinner is fine once you have 20 employees generating $300k/yr each (i.e. a salary of $100k, costs/benefits of another $50k or so, and generating more than they cost by 2x).
        carguy1983 14y ago
        I'm talking about all-together meals, not cafeteria and catering which is totally normal and acceptable by pretty much everybody.
  - wonnage 14y ago
    I've worked in these sorts of communal environments for the past six years and never had a problem. I happen to have friends and family who I have occasional disagreements with too. It's just eating together. Can't make it one day? It's not a mandatory meeting or something. Maybe you just don't work well with that?
    - 14y ago
- rickmb 14y ago
  You live in a dreamworld. Sorry to be so blunt, but grow the fuck up. People change. People's lives changes. People who fit into your narrow little culture now will grow out of it in a few years time. But they are still your "friends", they are still valuable employees, maybe even more than before. What are you going to do then, fire everyone who grows out of your cozy little "family" culture because they have a live of their own? It's either that, or start a cult. Or of course, grow up and run a real company instead. The 1% you're looking for isn't just a minority, it's just fraction of those people's lives. Real human beings are more complicated than that.

jasonshen 14y ago

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I totally respect your preferences and it sounds like you might not enjoy working at Ridejoy. That's fine - it's certainly not for everyone. We've found our company morale increasing after implementing group dinners and while we can't directly prove a boost in productivity, we believe there is a link. We thought we'd share what we're learning with HN. Not sure where you got your "99% of people want" stat but if it's true, then I guess we're looking for that 1%

carguy1983 14y ago
WARNING: RANT MODE ON. So what happens when you need to have a serious talk with someone for screwing up and everyone's in a terrible mood afterwards? Do you expect them to also join you at dinner? Or is their punishment that they have to pretend to be happy for the happiness manager? Or is their punishment that they don't get to join you, banished to a microwave meal at home while everyone else sings and dances and eats grass fed sustainably raised mutton raised in a westward-sloping Polyface-esque agrarian paradise just north of Petaluma, served on a bed of organic microgreens and wilted white kale and drinks low sulfide wine from the Willamette Valley with just a hint of raspberries on the nose and a dry finish with notes of oak and lavender? Or does the 1% you're looking for also not ever make mistakes, and gets along perfectly all the time, just like a real family? The thing about these kinds of blog posts is that they are thinly disguised recruiting / marketing efforts and inexperienced people take them as some sort of gospel - nobody ever talks about the time when the team is at each others' throats because someone (or everyone) fucked something critical up and lost $50k and 2 months of work, or petty workplace politics or sexual / drinking / druggie relationships or any of that - which always creep into this sort of hippy dippy communal meals big extended family type stuff and really just adds more trouble than it's really worth. I've worked exclusively at startups since 1999 and let me tell you, this shit happens. It all happens, all the time. People throw words at each other. People cuss and get into disagreements, people fuck up, people are very serious about very serious things, especially when TONS of money is involved. Like MILLIONS of dollars of owner and investor money. What this is - is corporate bullshit dressed up as culture, and it's fucking flabbergasting to me that it's making its way into startups!!!
- littledude 14y ago
  lots of startups eat together, look into zerocater and how they started their whole business around this concept. even ycombinator has big dinners with multiple startups regularly. it's not uncommon at all and accepted at good practice by lots of companies. i don't understand why you're making this out to be some negative experience.
  - carguy1983 14y ago
    It's simply not scaleable, and shouldn't be a goal for a startup - if it happens naturally, great everyone loves each other, but it shouldn't be somebody's job description to organize this sort of thing with an implication of alienation if one doesn't partake. As a company grows larger people are not going to be cooking for each other and the boss isn't going to spend $1k a day on lunch and dinner.
    - rdl 14y ago
      $1k/day for lunch and dinner is fine once you have 20 employees generating $300k/yr each (i.e. a salary of $100k, costs/benefits of another $50k or so, and generating more than they cost by 2x).
      - carguy1983 14y ago
        I'm talking about all-together meals, not cafeteria and catering which is totally normal and acceptable by pretty much everybody.
- wonnage 14y ago
  I've worked in these sorts of communal environments for the past six years and never had a problem. I happen to have friends and family who I have occasional disagreements with too. It's just eating together. Can't make it one day? It's not a mandatory meeting or something. Maybe you just don't work well with that?
  - 14y ago
rickmb 14y ago
You live in a dreamworld. Sorry to be so blunt, but grow the fuck up. People change. People's lives changes. People who fit into your narrow little culture now will grow out of it in a few years time. But they are still your "friends", they are still valuable employees, maybe even more than before. What are you going to do then, fire everyone who grows out of your cozy little "family" culture because they have a live of their own? It's either that, or start a cult. Or of course, grow up and run a real company instead. The 1% you're looking for isn't just a minority, it's just fraction of those people's lives. Real human beings are more complicated than that.