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Talon is what I would describe as accessibility for programmers (my definition, not the developer's!). You effectively write software that replaces keyboard and

by SCdF 3y ago

Talon is what I would describe as accessibility for programmers (my definition, not the developer's!). You effectively write software that replaces keyboard and mouse usage, generically, flexibly and programmatically. So when you write commands you bind them in different way: app specific[1], feature specific[2][3], OS-specific, hecking __programming language specific__[4] etc, and then talon mixes and matches all of that stuff together. So let's say I have VSCode focused on a javascript file . Talon knows this, and so I have "panel switch" which is a vscode specific command, and "op strict equal" to insert ` === `, but I also have generic text editing commands (because it's an editor), and multi cursor commands (because vscode has been tagged as multi cursor supporting), and tab commands (because vscode is a tab-based editor), and so on and so on. If I then switched to the browser I would keep the generic text editing commands, and the tab commands, as it supports both of those things, but I would no longer have multi cursor support (or JS commands), because my browser doesn't support that. This also means you can by and large use the same talon config (and so the same voice commands) on windows, mac and x11. So for me switching to windows is actually less of a pain because most of the ways I interact with my computer don't actually change, as talon abstracts that away quite a bit. [1] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... / https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.py https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... [2] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/core/windows_and_tabs/tabs.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/core/windows... [3] where vscode gets its features "bound" https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/vscode.talon#L4-L8 https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/apps/vscode/... [4] https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/lang/javascript/javascript.talon https://github.com/talonhub/community/blob/main/lang/javascr...

Semaphor 3y ago
That is one incredibly cool piece of software.
eviks 3y ago
Is it app state specific? Can it detect a text box within an app? Or a text box while in Insert mode in a vim-like app?
- SCdF 3y ago
  By and large it's not that smart, no. For example[1] it doesn't know if you're using VSCode that you have focused the inbuilt terminal, and so it should now accept terminal commands (eg "cd <whatever>") until you focus back. It knows about the language that you are using because you have configured your text editor to have the file name in the window name, which it can reliably read. This is also how you have website specific configuration. [1] last I checked! I think there was some work to try to solve this problem, I'm not sure where they got to though, I kind of went down my own configuration fork for a while
- rntz 3y ago
  With Talon on Mac I believe this is possible (Mac has surprisingly nice accessibility APIs), but I don't know whether Talon on X11 can do it. If it's possible it would probably(?) involve rolling your own at-spi stuff.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - phatskat 3y ago
    Apple in general seems to really embrace accessibility. I remember using the screen reader back in middle school because it was “cool”, and now some 25 years later I can see that it was the tip of the accessibility iceberg. My iPhone has just _tons_ of accessibility features that I’ll probably never use, but that are invaluable to people experiencing all kinds of accessibility hurdles in their daily life. I can’t speak much to windows accessibility, although Mouse Keys got me through several rough times in my life where I fried or broke my mouse in some way or another. I do think windows has improved with time, at least by accidentally triggering the screen reading in W10 more times than I’d care to admit
phkahler 3y ago
How does that have anything to do with disabilities? Honest, it sounds like a form of fancy customisation and I don't doubt Wayland may not support it, but that's not why accessibility is a thing.
- SCdF 3y ago
  I have such bad RSI from computer use that I can't use a keyboard for any length of time close to allowing me to hold a fulltime (or likely part time) job. I have solved this by replacing my keyboard with voice commands almost entirely (I don't actually have a keyboard on my desk, but I can reach for my laptop keyboard if I really really have to), and am slowly working on replacing a trackball with an eye tracker (it's kind of headache-inducing though, so it's likely the trackball will stay for a while) I'm not a medical professional but that sounds like a disability to me.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    Recent discussions on HN have mentioned RSI being cured by exercise. (If I recall, someone specifically mentioned pull-ups.) It makes a kind of intuitive sense to me that the problem might be more a lack of normal wrist movement than the abnormal movement and positioning that the keyboard/mouse need.
    - azinman2 3y ago
      RSI doesn’t seem to be one thing that has a universal cure.
      - thaumasiotes 3y ago
        Traditionally it has no cure at all, but apparently there are those who disagree. The odds are pretty good that computer-related RSI is similar to other computer-related RSI. I see no particular need to specify that I'm not talking about tennis elbow when that is already abundantly evident from the context. Most of my comments could include an accurate disclaimer that I'm not talking about tennis elbow, but it wouldn't improve any of them.

by SCdF 3y ago

Semaphor 3y ago

That is one incredibly cool piece of software.

eviks 3y ago

Is it app state specific? Can it detect a text box within an app? Or a text box while in Insert mode in a vim-like app?

SCdF 3y ago
By and large it's not that smart, no. For example[1] it doesn't know if you're using VSCode that you have focused the inbuilt terminal, and so it should now accept terminal commands (eg "cd <whatever>") until you focus back. It knows about the language that you are using because you have configured your text editor to have the file name in the window name, which it can reliably read. This is also how you have website specific configuration. [1] last I checked! I think there was some work to try to solve this problem, I'm not sure where they got to though, I kind of went down my own configuration fork for a while
rntz 3y ago
With Talon on Mac I believe this is possible (Mac has surprisingly nice accessibility APIs), but I don't know whether Talon on X11 can do it. If it's possible it would probably(?) involve rolling your own at-spi stuff.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- phatskat 3y ago
  Apple in general seems to really embrace accessibility. I remember using the screen reader back in middle school because it was “cool”, and now some 25 years later I can see that it was the tip of the accessibility iceberg. My iPhone has just _tons_ of accessibility features that I’ll probably never use, but that are invaluable to people experiencing all kinds of accessibility hurdles in their daily life. I can’t speak much to windows accessibility, although Mouse Keys got me through several rough times in my life where I fried or broke my mouse in some way or another. I do think windows has improved with time, at least by accidentally triggering the screen reading in W10 more times than I’d care to admit

phkahler 3y ago

How does that have anything to do with disabilities? Honest, it sounds like a form of fancy customisation and I don't doubt Wayland may not support it, but that's not why accessibility is a thing.

SCdF 3y ago
I have such bad RSI from computer use that I can't use a keyboard for any length of time close to allowing me to hold a fulltime (or likely part time) job. I have solved this by replacing my keyboard with voice commands almost entirely (I don't actually have a keyboard on my desk, but I can reach for my laptop keyboard if I really really have to), and am slowly working on replacing a trackball with an eye tracker (it's kind of headache-inducing though, so it's likely the trackball will stay for a while) I'm not a medical professional but that sounds like a disability to me.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  Recent discussions on HN have mentioned RSI being cured by exercise. (If I recall, someone specifically mentioned pull-ups.) It makes a kind of intuitive sense to me that the problem might be more a lack of normal wrist movement than the abnormal movement and positioning that the keyboard/mouse need.
  - azinman2 3y ago
    RSI doesn’t seem to be one thing that has a universal cure.
    - thaumasiotes 3y ago
      Traditionally it has no cure at all, but apparently there are those who disagree. The odds are pretty good that computer-related RSI is similar to other computer-related RSI. I see no particular need to specify that I'm not talking about tennis elbow when that is already abundantly evident from the context. Most of my comments could include an accurate disclaimer that I'm not talking about tennis elbow, but it wouldn't improve any of them.