7 ms·

US schools are some of the best funded in the world. Everyone wants a scapegoat for this problem, whether it be funding, teachers, or administration, but unfor

US schools are some of the best funded in the world. Everyone wants a scapegoat for this problem, whether it be funding, teachers, or administration, but unfortunately the problem is societal. Test scores are probably declining because parents are more worried about the sexual orientation of cartoon characters rather than their child's test score, among other distractions. The root of the problem is that respect for education in the US is low.

orangepurple 3y ago
Based on my own tiny "clinical trials" how much and how quickly children learn is proportional to the time spent working through problems together with their parents.
- hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
  Yeah. My dad literally sits with me for extra Math and English materials (He is a Math prof and my mom is an English prof). I hated it but TBH that's probably I'm going to do to my son :P Of course to a lesser extend as I need to take care of my career at the same time. Back then once you are prof you are safe for eternity.
  - gumby 3y ago
    > My dad literally sits with me for extra Math and English materials…that's probably I'm going to do to my son Yep, that’s the way to do it, and it can be fun, especially since it’s just helping rather than full on home schooling. Most school curricula have different and concrete objectives (basically meeting aggregated KPIs) rather than “is the student actually learning?” Also teachers have a lot to deal with, and always have, tangential to actual teaching, like disruptive students. I think the best part of the supplement is that most school work has no context (“will this be on the test?”). Especially in math, where you spend 12 years “learning the alphabet” and only after high school do you get to the fun parts, if ever. So at home you can actually see how the stuff you’re getting in school actually relates to the realm world, and can pursue interesting paths.
    - hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
      Yeah I agree. I'm probably going to do it differently as I hated that experience and TBH it doesn't benefit my study as he so wished. I found the biggest problem of his approach is that he didn't care about figuring out my interest (TBF I didn't know either). The extra-curriculum study is mostly aimed for getting into a better school later so he first taught me Math in advance and then some extra for competitions. And even for programming he extremely hates gaming (to this day he thinks game developers are bad people, like people who do narcotics) and ONLY wants me to do competitive programming. Anyway I did not have any interest for anything he taught so it has been a painful drag for both of us until he kinda gave up when I reached grade 10. Now that my kid is 3.25, I want to try something different. But I do find myself lacking the time or knowledge to prepare material for such activities. I want to expose him to a variety of activities after he reaches 4, say arithmetic and simple reading (so he can then spend more time reading books by himself), but I do not know how to approach teaching the topics. He is as impatient as a child can be and of course he is not interested in learning stuffs, which is definitely less interesting than, say, watching tanks crashing cars. All in all, I know nothing about pediatrics education and need to know more before damaging our relationship as my father did back in the day. Neither do I have the mental energy reserve to burn candles to research on such topics. But I'll try.
      - orangepurple 3y ago
        Quick way to get started: find numbers and letters in anything they are interested in. Kids love helping their parents and cooking with them using recipes and measuring stuff uses letters and numbers.
        hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
        Thanks! We do do this like counting cars or clothes. He is good at counting from 1-20 so I think we are going to move to the concept of adding/subtractions. Probably going to use fruits.
        gumby 3y ago
- hosh 3y ago
  Personal attention matters. You can’t really outsource that. While not scientific, it is a sentiment described in _Diamond Age_.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  “What a child can do today with assistance, she will be able to do by herself tomorrow.”
michaelt 3y ago
I've received extremely mixed messages from Americans about how well funded education is. On one hand, I've heard that a class of 30 kids gets almost half a million dollars of taxpayer money per year. On the other hand, I've heard that teachers get a salary of about $50k, and have to beg on gofundme to equip their classrooms with basic stationary. I really have no idea how to get these two facts to line up.
- kar5pt 3y ago
  It's pretty simple actually. US schools are run at the local level, not the national level. So different school districts (a district is usually the size of a town or county) get different amounts of funding.
- whywhywhywhy 3y ago
  Does it make sense calculating teacher salaries by year when they don’t work the full year, it’s actually significantly less when we take working hours into account maybe as low as 70% so it’s more like they’re paid a 70k rate with low hours and two months off.
  - jwestbury 3y ago
    Go ask a teacher about how many hours they work -- it's more than the 40 hours a week we in tech work, generally. And their summers are often full of required continuing education courses which they pay for out of pocket, much like many other professions which are desperately understaffed (see: counselors).
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      How many hours a week do they spend drilling leetcode or being on call. On maintaining their homelab because they need to keep up with the latest fashionable tech nonsense? If you ask anyone, they'll tell you they're busy because that's the socially acceptable thing to say. If I'm honest, I don't do that much work (I tend to believe that's actually why we create and maintain all of these machines - so we don't have to work very much, but I'm apparently a disagreeable sort), but I still say that I'm keeping busy because if I said that I'm basically lazy and just want to meditate or watch TV most of the day away, people (particularly my employer) might take issue with that.
alienicecream 3y ago
Why is the sexual orientation of cartoon characters being pushed on kids though? Seems like something to be worried about if you're a parent.
- jmye 3y ago
  > being pushed on kids though What do you think this means? Is having a picture of me and my wife on my desk "pushing my heterosexual orientation" on my co-workers? I'm really confused by what you think is upsetting in a cartoon with multiple Mom/Dad characters, also including a lesbian couple. Why is it ok to "push" one sexual orientation, but "worrying" to "push" another?
  - alienicecream 3y ago
    It's not confusing if you just remove the premise you're trying to assume. One of those displays has been a given in our culture for as far back as recorded history, the other is something new that is being imposed from above with unknown, potentially detrimental effects. So suspicion is warranted.
    - jmye 3y ago
      > One of those displays has been a given in our culture for as far back as recorded history, the other is something new that is being imposed from above with unknown, potentially detrimental effects. This is patently and demonstrably false. Numerous cultures and societies have happily tolerated homosexuality. Again, what is being "pushed" on kids? What are you suspicious of? I don't understand why you don't want to answer a very basic question.
      - alienicecream 3y ago
        I thought I did answer the question. But to be clear, what is being pushed on children is that homosexuality is normal and healthy with the subtext that they should experiment with it. I am suspicious of the claim that it is those things and that the claimants are doing nothing more than promoting tolerance.

orangepurple 3y ago

Based on my own tiny "clinical trials" how much and how quickly children learn is proportional to the time spent working through problems together with their parents.

hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
Yeah. My dad literally sits with me for extra Math and English materials (He is a Math prof and my mom is an English prof). I hated it but TBH that's probably I'm going to do to my son :P Of course to a lesser extend as I need to take care of my career at the same time. Back then once you are prof you are safe for eternity.
- gumby 3y ago
  > My dad literally sits with me for extra Math and English materials…that's probably I'm going to do to my son Yep, that’s the way to do it, and it can be fun, especially since it’s just helping rather than full on home schooling. Most school curricula have different and concrete objectives (basically meeting aggregated KPIs) rather than “is the student actually learning?” Also teachers have a lot to deal with, and always have, tangential to actual teaching, like disruptive students. I think the best part of the supplement is that most school work has no context (“will this be on the test?”). Especially in math, where you spend 12 years “learning the alphabet” and only after high school do you get to the fun parts, if ever. So at home you can actually see how the stuff you’re getting in school actually relates to the realm world, and can pursue interesting paths.
  - hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
    Yeah I agree. I'm probably going to do it differently as I hated that experience and TBH it doesn't benefit my study as he so wished. I found the biggest problem of his approach is that he didn't care about figuring out my interest (TBF I didn't know either). The extra-curriculum study is mostly aimed for getting into a better school later so he first taught me Math in advance and then some extra for competitions. And even for programming he extremely hates gaming (to this day he thinks game developers are bad people, like people who do narcotics) and ONLY wants me to do competitive programming. Anyway I did not have any interest for anything he taught so it has been a painful drag for both of us until he kinda gave up when I reached grade 10. Now that my kid is 3.25, I want to try something different. But I do find myself lacking the time or knowledge to prepare material for such activities. I want to expose him to a variety of activities after he reaches 4, say arithmetic and simple reading (so he can then spend more time reading books by himself), but I do not know how to approach teaching the topics. He is as impatient as a child can be and of course he is not interested in learning stuffs, which is definitely less interesting than, say, watching tanks crashing cars. All in all, I know nothing about pediatrics education and need to know more before damaging our relationship as my father did back in the day. Neither do I have the mental energy reserve to burn candles to research on such topics. But I'll try.
    - orangepurple 3y ago
      Quick way to get started: find numbers and letters in anything they are interested in. Kids love helping their parents and cooking with them using recipes and measuring stuff uses letters and numbers.
      - hnthrowaway0328 3y ago
        Thanks! We do do this like counting cars or clothes. He is good at counting from 1-20 so I think we are going to move to the concept of adding/subtractions. Probably going to use fruits.
        gumby 3y ago
hosh 3y ago
Personal attention matters. You can’t really outsource that. While not scientific, it is a sentiment described in _Diamond Age_.
2devnull 3y ago
“What a child can do today with assistance, she will be able to do by herself tomorrow.”

michaelt 3y ago

I've received extremely mixed messages from Americans about how well funded education is. On one hand, I've heard that a class of 30 kids gets almost half a million dollars of taxpayer money per year. On the other hand, I've heard that teachers get a salary of about $50k, and have to beg on gofundme to equip their classrooms with basic stationary. I really have no idea how to get these two facts to line up.

kar5pt 3y ago
It's pretty simple actually. US schools are run at the local level, not the national level. So different school districts (a district is usually the size of a town or county) get different amounts of funding.
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
Does it make sense calculating teacher salaries by year when they don’t work the full year, it’s actually significantly less when we take working hours into account maybe as low as 70% so it’s more like they’re paid a 70k rate with low hours and two months off.
- jwestbury 3y ago
  Go ask a teacher about how many hours they work -- it's more than the 40 hours a week we in tech work, generally. And their summers are often full of required continuing education courses which they pay for out of pocket, much like many other professions which are desperately understaffed (see: counselors).
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    How many hours a week do they spend drilling leetcode or being on call. On maintaining their homelab because they need to keep up with the latest fashionable tech nonsense? If you ask anyone, they'll tell you they're busy because that's the socially acceptable thing to say. If I'm honest, I don't do that much work (I tend to believe that's actually why we create and maintain all of these machines - so we don't have to work very much, but I'm apparently a disagreeable sort), but I still say that I'm keeping busy because if I said that I'm basically lazy and just want to meditate or watch TV most of the day away, people (particularly my employer) might take issue with that.

alienicecream 3y ago

Why is the sexual orientation of cartoon characters being pushed on kids though? Seems like something to be worried about if you're a parent.

jmye 3y ago
> being pushed on kids though What do you think this means? Is having a picture of me and my wife on my desk "pushing my heterosexual orientation" on my co-workers? I'm really confused by what you think is upsetting in a cartoon with multiple Mom/Dad characters, also including a lesbian couple. Why is it ok to "push" one sexual orientation, but "worrying" to "push" another?
- alienicecream 3y ago
  It's not confusing if you just remove the premise you're trying to assume. One of those displays has been a given in our culture for as far back as recorded history, the other is something new that is being imposed from above with unknown, potentially detrimental effects. So suspicion is warranted.
  - jmye 3y ago
    > One of those displays has been a given in our culture for as far back as recorded history, the other is something new that is being imposed from above with unknown, potentially detrimental effects. This is patently and demonstrably false. Numerous cultures and societies have happily tolerated homosexuality. Again, what is being "pushed" on kids? What are you suspicious of? I don't understand why you don't want to answer a very basic question.
    - alienicecream 3y ago
      I thought I did answer the question. But to be clear, what is being pushed on children is that homosexuality is normal and healthy with the subtext that they should experiment with it. I am suspicious of the claim that it is those things and that the claimants are doing nothing more than promoting tolerance.