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Unfortunately is not only regulators, substitute all physical buttons with touchscreen is way cheaper and future proof, so all automakers were happy and quiet a

Unfortunately is not only regulators, substitute all physical buttons with touchscreen is way cheaper and future proof, so all automakers were happy and quiet about it.

criley2 3y ago
How is it future proof? Knobs work fine on 30 year old cars and can be 3d printed or ordered. I've never had a daily driver touch screen last longer than 5 years, personally. It's planned obsolescence. Every part of the car should be good for 20 years. 20 years ago, we were using Moto Razrs and it would be 4 more years until iPhone changed how we think of touchscreens. These junk touchscreen cars from this era will not make it without extremely expensive repair
- trizoza 3y ago
  You can just push a software update and completely change the functionality/looks of it. With the physical buttons, they have to be linked to a certain functionality at the manufacturing stage.
  - criley2 3y ago
    Pushing a software update is a big process, it's not some simple thing. There's a lot of process behind updating the software of a car where a bug could kill the occupants. For what it's worth: the physical buttons being linked to certain functionality from the beginning is the whole point, and is the defining characteristic of "good usability". When your buttons change arbitrarily, you will always require eyesight to identify the buttons, which is radically unsafe and creates a horrifying UX since regulators have not yet banned all touchscreen use while a vehicle is moving
- nucleardog 3y ago
  > How is it future proof? They’re infinitely modifiable in software. If you’re doing a model refresh and want to add a button, you change a few lines of code instead of redesigning the dashboard and sourcing parts and adjusting the assembly process and updating the engineering documents and maintenance and repair manuals and…
  - gregmac 3y ago
    I suspect it's also a lot cheaper during model development. UI changes with physical buttons mean changing molds, screen-printed text, electrical connections, etc. With a touchscreen, you plan "touchscreen here" and the UI can be modified in software basically up to the point the first production car rolls off the line (and even after that, too).
  - criley2 3y ago
    This is insanity, you still have a long and arduous process to design and test your changes. Software isn't a shortcut that bypasses the processes that lead to "legal and safe"
semireg 3y ago
Let us not forget that keyboards are literally programmable buttons. Some with displays on each button. You can have software updates and physical buttons. This is a design issue, not an either or between touchscreens and “hardcoded single function buttons” of yesteryear.
- jansan 3y ago
  It is a design issue because you cannot freely change the number, location and size of buttons. Also, buttons need to be planned long before mass production starts, and for smaller series it is quite expensive to have the mold and design created only for a specific car. That's why some buttons in super cars are shitty looking stock buttons. With touch buttons or touch screens you only need to decide on the screen size and placement and everything can be done later in the development. It is quite an advantage from the car manufacturer's view.
ho_schi 3y ago
Cars from thirty years ago still work. What makes them future proof is maintenance and engineering. Not touch screens. We will always need to tune the temperature, switch turning indicators, turn on warning lights or change the volume. Touch screens are only cheap. And it is questionable that we get any software update in ten years. Not even thinking three decades ahead. And probably we will be glad that there are no software updates removing* or changing* features. With constant updates and internet connectivity we will not get any car safe. Basically we want electric cars. Not computers, at least none we need to handle. * e.g. Shimano Di2 (shifting groupset for roadbikes) with a Hammerhead bike computer: Shimano forced Hammerhead in 2022 to remove the support for the Di2 because Shimano now consider them as competitor. One of the reasons for mechanical groups is reliability! * Hello Windows Users. Do you like automatic updates? How about enforced updates? May we increase requirements?

Unfortunately is not only regulators, substitute all physical buttons with touchscreen is way cheaper and future proof, so all automakers were happy and quiet about it.

criley2 3y ago

How is it future proof? Knobs work fine on 30 year old cars and can be 3d printed or ordered. I've never had a daily driver touch screen last longer than 5 years, personally. It's planned obsolescence. Every part of the car should be good for 20 years. 20 years ago, we were using Moto Razrs and it would be 4 more years until iPhone changed how we think of touchscreens. These junk touchscreen cars from this era will not make it without extremely expensive repair

trizoza 3y ago
You can just push a software update and completely change the functionality/looks of it. With the physical buttons, they have to be linked to a certain functionality at the manufacturing stage.
- criley2 3y ago
  Pushing a software update is a big process, it's not some simple thing. There's a lot of process behind updating the software of a car where a bug could kill the occupants. For what it's worth: the physical buttons being linked to certain functionality from the beginning is the whole point, and is the defining characteristic of "good usability". When your buttons change arbitrarily, you will always require eyesight to identify the buttons, which is radically unsafe and creates a horrifying UX since regulators have not yet banned all touchscreen use while a vehicle is moving
nucleardog 3y ago
> How is it future proof? They’re infinitely modifiable in software. If you’re doing a model refresh and want to add a button, you change a few lines of code instead of redesigning the dashboard and sourcing parts and adjusting the assembly process and updating the engineering documents and maintenance and repair manuals and…
- gregmac 3y ago
  I suspect it's also a lot cheaper during model development. UI changes with physical buttons mean changing molds, screen-printed text, electrical connections, etc. With a touchscreen, you plan "touchscreen here" and the UI can be modified in software basically up to the point the first production car rolls off the line (and even after that, too).
- criley2 3y ago
  This is insanity, you still have a long and arduous process to design and test your changes. Software isn't a shortcut that bypasses the processes that lead to "legal and safe"

semireg 3y ago

Let us not forget that keyboards are literally programmable buttons. Some with displays on each button. You can have software updates and physical buttons. This is a design issue, not an either or between touchscreens and “hardcoded single function buttons” of yesteryear.

jansan 3y ago
It is a design issue because you cannot freely change the number, location and size of buttons. Also, buttons need to be planned long before mass production starts, and for smaller series it is quite expensive to have the mold and design created only for a specific car. That's why some buttons in super cars are shitty looking stock buttons. With touch buttons or touch screens you only need to decide on the screen size and placement and everything can be done later in the development. It is quite an advantage from the car manufacturer's view.

ho_schi 3y ago

Cars from thirty years ago still work. What makes them future proof is maintenance and engineering. Not touch screens. We will always need to tune the temperature, switch turning indicators, turn on warning lights or change the volume. Touch screens are only cheap. And it is questionable that we get any software update in ten years. Not even thinking three decades ahead. And probably we will be glad that there are no software updates removing* or changing* features. With constant updates and internet connectivity we will not get any car safe. Basically we want electric cars. Not computers, at least none we need to handle. * e.g. Shimano Di2 (shifting groupset for roadbikes) with a Hammerhead bike computer: Shimano forced Hammerhead in 2022 to remove the support for the Di2 because Shimano now consider them as competitor. One of the reasons for mechanical groups is reliability! * Hello Windows Users. Do you like automatic updates? How about enforced updates? May we increase requirements?