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I won’t own a car with a touchscreen. Ever. If I were given such a vehicle, I would get rid of it quickly. My last car purchase it was not easy to find a newer

I won’t own a car with a touchscreen. Ever. If I were given such a vehicle, I would get rid of it quickly. My last car purchase it was not easy to find a newer vehicle without that junk. I see such things as signs of low quality. I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars on anything connected to some cheap Chinese touch pad. It ruins the entire experience. If I wanted navigation I’d use my phone. Any car I have to configure, I will loath deeply.

danielvaughn 3y ago
Have you ever driven a Tesla? I drove one last year and literally all you get is a touch screen. IIRC you even use the touch screen to change gears. It's insane. I did get used to it, but overall I absolutely loathe touch screens in vehicles. If I can't modify something without averting my eyes from the road, then I consider it a massive safety hazard. I'll never understand how regulators approved these things.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  No. I don’t have a lot of money, and am skeptical they or other shiny new tech toys can save the planet via consumerism. I’m pro-Tesla on net. Everyone in the upper middle class were buying Lexus’ and Suburbans before Tesla came along, so I imagine many thousands of tons less pollution than the counter-factual. But probably buying a brand new Tesla isn’t cooling the atmosphere appreciably. In any case, I’m not that counter-factual. To the extent I like cars, and I kind of do, I like those with character and manual gears. I try to limit my driving, but when I have to drive, I enjoy the full experience.
- natch 3y ago
  >literally all you get is a touch screen There were no buttons on the steering wheel? Which model? >you even use the touch screen to change gears. Wow, really wondering now which Tesla model did you drive, where you had to change gears?
  - danielvaughn 3y ago
    I can't remember which model, by "gears" I mean reverse, neutral, drive, etc.
    - natch 3y ago
      Since you were using strong words like "loathing" I guess you'll be relieved to hear that Teslas have physical stalks for that. In the case of the newer Plaid S and X they automatically shift into reverse for you when needed, without any need to use the touch screen at all. I'm not sure when you would use neutral but I suppose in a service situation, something pretty unusual and again on the vast majority of Teslas, whether you count by the number of models or the number of individual shipped cars, that's also done with a physical stalk so the touch screen is really a non-issue here. Yes, shifting into neutral is done with the physical stalk. As is reverse and drive. But perception matters. I think Tesla should do a better job educating the public about their cars, because people form all sorts of opinions and then it's hard to even have a conversation because the baseline knowledge about what is going on has to be totally reset. Even people who drive a Tesla once come away mistakenly thinking it has no buttons (!!), which is so far from the truth it's hard to fathom what phenomenon we are witnessing here.
      - danielvaughn 3y ago
        Even if it has some physical buttons, just take a look at the interior of a Tesla. It doesn't have nearly enough. I drove it for about 6 hours (it was a rental). And I distinctly remember being aggravated by the lack of physical controls. If they want to change their perception, maybe have more than just a touch screen in the middle of their dashboard.
        natch 3y ago
        They don’t care about their perception. People either get it, or don’t. It’s ok! My advice would be just don’t get one.
metafunctor 3y ago
Would you own a car that has an associated app for a phone or tablet? The app would do things like planning trips, showing mileage statistics, giving you verbose errors in case the vehicle has issues, and for an EV you could plan and control charging for off-peak times, etc. If you would like that, why wouldn't you like the same in the car itself? Those are not things you would need to use while driving, of course, but it would still be quite a bit nicer that going to "stats menu 001" "L" "2" "11" and viewing a number on some LCD readout...
- the_snooze 3y ago
  Cars have functional lives of 10+ years, and very often longer than that. The way nearly all car apps are implemented is that they depend on some remote backend. What you're describing sounds good on the surface, but car manufacturers have absolutely no incentive to keep that software up-to-date, functional, and secure for the functional life of the car. The LCD readout doesn't require long-term software maintenance, because it's entirely local and just works regardless of who's in charge at the car company.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    > have absolutely no incentive to keep that software up-to-date, functional, and secure for the functional life of the car They do. It will just be free for the first 3 years, 20/month next 3 years... up to 500/month for collector's items :)
ta1243 3y ago
I have two cars. One is a 2005 Micra with no touch screen. Doing things like changing the clock is a right pain. The other is a 2021 Skoda with a touch screen, I can change the clock far more easily. The Skoda also does things like monitoring tyre pressure and warning if I get a puncture, and some other things deep in the menu I use once or twice a year (I find changing settings to km/h instead of mph is handy when going to europe) The car with a touch screen has buttons to select between volume, radio and carplay and works fine. Cruise/Limit is a button on the steering wheel, and there's a roller for volume, changing tracks, etc. Heating/aircon/defroster is a dial/physical buttons in both cars, same with things like hazzard lights, internal lights etc. Handbrake is a real handle, not a random button you hope is working. There is no need to touch the touchscreen while driving, but having a map there is quite handy, certainly better than a phone in a cradle on the dashboard. Just because a car has a touch screen doesn't mean you need to use it to operate basic functions. The problem isn't the screen, it's the lack of buttons for operational functions.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  Very persuasive when stated that way! It’s a good question. Why not just allow this small added feature which you don’t have to use? That’s a great general question that can be asked in many places that software dwells. My answer and thinking is therefore general as well. It’s a trap. What would the great Stallman say about touchscreens in the cockpit? He would be correct too. It’s a Trojan horse, once they get the touchscreen there it’s a matter of years before driving involves watching ads to offset fuel tax costs or whatever else the leadersip has decided the world must do now.
- bluGill 3y ago
  In the US all cars starting in 2007 must monitor tire pressure by law. That your 2005 car doesn't while your 2021 does isn't a touch screen function it is they didn't add that feature. Cars from before the touch screen era also told you tire pressure. Judging by the cars you name I'm guessing you are not in the US, I don't know what your local laws are. Probably similar but different years and other minor differences.

danielvaughn 3y ago

Have you ever driven a Tesla? I drove one last year and literally all you get is a touch screen. IIRC you even use the touch screen to change gears. It's insane. I did get used to it, but overall I absolutely loathe touch screens in vehicles. If I can't modify something without averting my eyes from the road, then I consider it a massive safety hazard. I'll never understand how regulators approved these things.

2devnull 3y ago
No. I don’t have a lot of money, and am skeptical they or other shiny new tech toys can save the planet via consumerism. I’m pro-Tesla on net. Everyone in the upper middle class were buying Lexus’ and Suburbans before Tesla came along, so I imagine many thousands of tons less pollution than the counter-factual. But probably buying a brand new Tesla isn’t cooling the atmosphere appreciably. In any case, I’m not that counter-factual. To the extent I like cars, and I kind of do, I like those with character and manual gears. I try to limit my driving, but when I have to drive, I enjoy the full experience.
natch 3y ago
>literally all you get is a touch screen There were no buttons on the steering wheel? Which model? >you even use the touch screen to change gears. Wow, really wondering now which Tesla model did you drive, where you had to change gears?
- danielvaughn 3y ago
  I can't remember which model, by "gears" I mean reverse, neutral, drive, etc.
  - natch 3y ago
    Since you were using strong words like "loathing" I guess you'll be relieved to hear that Teslas have physical stalks for that. In the case of the newer Plaid S and X they automatically shift into reverse for you when needed, without any need to use the touch screen at all. I'm not sure when you would use neutral but I suppose in a service situation, something pretty unusual and again on the vast majority of Teslas, whether you count by the number of models or the number of individual shipped cars, that's also done with a physical stalk so the touch screen is really a non-issue here. Yes, shifting into neutral is done with the physical stalk. As is reverse and drive. But perception matters. I think Tesla should do a better job educating the public about their cars, because people form all sorts of opinions and then it's hard to even have a conversation because the baseline knowledge about what is going on has to be totally reset. Even people who drive a Tesla once come away mistakenly thinking it has no buttons (!!), which is so far from the truth it's hard to fathom what phenomenon we are witnessing here.
    - danielvaughn 3y ago
      Even if it has some physical buttons, just take a look at the interior of a Tesla. It doesn't have nearly enough. I drove it for about 6 hours (it was a rental). And I distinctly remember being aggravated by the lack of physical controls. If they want to change their perception, maybe have more than just a touch screen in the middle of their dashboard.
      - natch 3y ago
        They don’t care about their perception. People either get it, or don’t. It’s ok! My advice would be just don’t get one.

metafunctor 3y ago

Would you own a car that has an associated app for a phone or tablet? The app would do things like planning trips, showing mileage statistics, giving you verbose errors in case the vehicle has issues, and for an EV you could plan and control charging for off-peak times, etc. If you would like that, why wouldn't you like the same in the car itself? Those are not things you would need to use while driving, of course, but it would still be quite a bit nicer that going to "stats menu 001" "L" "2" "11" and viewing a number on some LCD readout...

the_snooze 3y ago
Cars have functional lives of 10+ years, and very often longer than that. The way nearly all car apps are implemented is that they depend on some remote backend. What you're describing sounds good on the surface, but car manufacturers have absolutely no incentive to keep that software up-to-date, functional, and secure for the functional life of the car. The LCD readout doesn't require long-term software maintenance, because it's entirely local and just works regardless of who's in charge at the car company.
- nottorp 3y ago
  > have absolutely no incentive to keep that software up-to-date, functional, and secure for the functional life of the car They do. It will just be free for the first 3 years, 20/month next 3 years... up to 500/month for collector's items :)

ta1243 3y ago

I have two cars. One is a 2005 Micra with no touch screen. Doing things like changing the clock is a right pain. The other is a 2021 Skoda with a touch screen, I can change the clock far more easily. The Skoda also does things like monitoring tyre pressure and warning if I get a puncture, and some other things deep in the menu I use once or twice a year (I find changing settings to km/h instead of mph is handy when going to europe) The car with a touch screen has buttons to select between volume, radio and carplay and works fine. Cruise/Limit is a button on the steering wheel, and there's a roller for volume, changing tracks, etc. Heating/aircon/defroster is a dial/physical buttons in both cars, same with things like hazzard lights, internal lights etc. Handbrake is a real handle, not a random button you hope is working. There is no need to touch the touchscreen while driving, but having a map there is quite handy, certainly better than a phone in a cradle on the dashboard. Just because a car has a touch screen doesn't mean you need to use it to operate basic functions. The problem isn't the screen, it's the lack of buttons for operational functions.

2devnull 3y ago
Very persuasive when stated that way! It’s a good question. Why not just allow this small added feature which you don’t have to use? That’s a great general question that can be asked in many places that software dwells. My answer and thinking is therefore general as well. It’s a trap. What would the great Stallman say about touchscreens in the cockpit? He would be correct too. It’s a Trojan horse, once they get the touchscreen there it’s a matter of years before driving involves watching ads to offset fuel tax costs or whatever else the leadersip has decided the world must do now.
bluGill 3y ago
In the US all cars starting in 2007 must monitor tire pressure by law. That your 2005 car doesn't while your 2021 does isn't a touch screen function it is they didn't add that feature. Cars from before the touch screen era also told you tire pressure. Judging by the cars you name I'm guessing you are not in the US, I don't know what your local laws are. Probably similar but different years and other minor differences.