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The design in the pic looks reasonable. Big screen for nav, setup, rarely used functions. Then a set buttons with a knob for volume (or other rotary control whe

The design in the pic looks reasonable. Big screen for nav, setup, rarely used functions. Then a set buttons with a knob for volume (or other rotary control when in setup mode on the screen) and buttons around it to provide just the minimum functions you need while driving such as defrosters and climate control. You really don't need a lot of physical buttons for a car UX to be safe. And each button shouldn't need a separate cable. That button pad can be the exact sam N buttons for every model, every trim, and regardless of which side the steering wheel is on. The design with "flying" screens in front of the dashboard feels modern but it's of course a cost saving, which can be copied for the button pads. And use a single cable to the button console. I can't see how it's a massive production headache or cost if it's built that way. It's not 1989 you don't need 2 wires per button and 9 buttons for favorite radio stations.

hdjY28 3y ago
Ah, the sweet spot between a cockpit and a calculator. You're spot on; we're not trying to relaunch Apollo 13 here. Sure, give us a touchscreen for the tech savvy, but let's not forget the tactile satisfaction of a good ol' button. And yeah, a universal button pad is like the Swiss Army knife of car controls – versatile, yet uncomplicated. Let's keep the touchscreens for Candy Crush and leave driving to the buttons.
- pmontra 3y ago
  I'm tech savvy but I take physical buttons over touchscreen all the times. I switch radio channels with a wheel on a stick on the steering wheel, change volume with two buttons there. I don't dare using the touchpad for anything complex while driving. Then there is the thing I never understood: we can't use a phone while driving but we can use the touchscreen of the car, which is basically the same thing. Actually I understand why we can't (or we don't want to) piss off car makers and all their money, but yet where is the logic in that from the point of view of safety?
  - jansan 3y ago
    > I'm tech savvy but I take physical buttons over touchscreen all the times. Are you sure? I am all in favor of physical buttons where you need quick access, for example steering wheel and climate control. But touch screens are quite awesome to simplify access to more complicated settings. I hate it when you have four buttons to navigate through nested menus.
    - pmontra 3y ago
      Yes, but I play with settings when my car is parked. Everything I do while driving is with buttons and wheels.
  - alkonaut 3y ago
    > we can't use a phone while driving but we can use the touchscreen of the car, which is basically the same thing That's why (at least where I live) you CAN use a phone if it's stuck on a holder. Because otherwise it would make no sense because it's just a touch screen right next to the screen where you change radio stations. > I switch radio channels with a wheel on a stick on the steering wheel, change volume with two buttons there. I think all cars have 20 buttons on the steering wheel these days, which is great. You don't need 1 button per radio station you just need a 4 way thing for next/prev and vol up/down. And since it's so few buttons why not have them under the thumb.
- velox_neb 3y ago
  You sound like ChatGPT.
calvinmorrison 3y ago
A single cable.... can we at least get dedicated emergency flasher wiring?
jollyllama 3y ago
From what I understand, even ICE cars have more wiring than ever.
- tinco 3y ago
  I think it's a reference to something Elon Musk recently said about the 48 volt system in the Cybertruck. Apparently switching to 48v allows them to use ethernet in the car and save 77% on wiring. I'm not sure why 48V specifically makes this feasible, though it definitely makes it more efficient (and lighter). I watched a video on it a couple weeks ago and it made sense to me then, now I'm not sure why you couldn't make a 12V network. Maybe it's just more expensive. Apparently the Cybertruck is the only or one of the very few cars that have done this.
  - jollyllama 3y ago
    Thanks for the explainer, the 1989 comment threw me off.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    48V isn't what enables Ethernet, it does however make it more useful. 48V enables high power things to be scattered around the car - voltage loss from the front to the back of a car at 12V is an issue, and cars spend a lot of money on large wires to work around that. High power things scattered around the car often can take advantage of Ethernet. things that cannot get a lot of power can get by on lower bandwidth data buses.
    - bbarn 3y ago
      The 12V loss is something that really sunk in working on older cars. You wouldn't think a cable that read 0 on the ohmeter could still not sufficiently carry power, but it happens. Starter systems especially - My old van I remember wouldn't start once and all I had to do was clean the terminals on the battery with a wire brush.
  - Maxion 3y ago
    48V is a common POE standard. But Musk is again blowing a bunch of smoke.
_ea1k 3y ago
Agreed, the VW approach here looks pretty good. It might even have fewer physical controls than the id.4?
seszett 3y ago
> you don't need [...] 9 buttons for favorite radio stations. It certainly is nice being able to switch to one of a handful of stations with just one press, though. Why not have that?
- alkonaut 3y ago
  I think that's one of pretty few things that a touch screen does pretty well. You have a list of items and you click the item. You lose the tactile but you get a huge button that says "Jazz classics 101.2 FM" instead. It's a tradeoff that's totally worth it I think especially if you already have real buttons for up/down on the steering wheel. Making 10 buttons and hooking them to specific (and unknown!) radio stations seems like a waste of space.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
fishywang 3y ago
They should just copy Mazda's design, a screen that's not touch enabled and do not need to be put within arm's reach (so it can be put further away, and thus closer to driver's point of view when driving, that driver just need to glance slightly to the side to see the screen). Then physical buttons/controls for common things (volume, wiper, etc.), and a general knob for navigating things on the screen.

hdjY28 3y ago

Ah, the sweet spot between a cockpit and a calculator. You're spot on; we're not trying to relaunch Apollo 13 here. Sure, give us a touchscreen for the tech savvy, but let's not forget the tactile satisfaction of a good ol' button. And yeah, a universal button pad is like the Swiss Army knife of car controls – versatile, yet uncomplicated. Let's keep the touchscreens for Candy Crush and leave driving to the buttons.

pmontra 3y ago
I'm tech savvy but I take physical buttons over touchscreen all the times. I switch radio channels with a wheel on a stick on the steering wheel, change volume with two buttons there. I don't dare using the touchpad for anything complex while driving. Then there is the thing I never understood: we can't use a phone while driving but we can use the touchscreen of the car, which is basically the same thing. Actually I understand why we can't (or we don't want to) piss off car makers and all their money, but yet where is the logic in that from the point of view of safety?
- jansan 3y ago
  > I'm tech savvy but I take physical buttons over touchscreen all the times. Are you sure? I am all in favor of physical buttons where you need quick access, for example steering wheel and climate control. But touch screens are quite awesome to simplify access to more complicated settings. I hate it when you have four buttons to navigate through nested menus.
  - pmontra 3y ago
    Yes, but I play with settings when my car is parked. Everything I do while driving is with buttons and wheels.
- alkonaut 3y ago
  > we can't use a phone while driving but we can use the touchscreen of the car, which is basically the same thing That's why (at least where I live) you CAN use a phone if it's stuck on a holder. Because otherwise it would make no sense because it's just a touch screen right next to the screen where you change radio stations. > I switch radio channels with a wheel on a stick on the steering wheel, change volume with two buttons there. I think all cars have 20 buttons on the steering wheel these days, which is great. You don't need 1 button per radio station you just need a 4 way thing for next/prev and vol up/down. And since it's so few buttons why not have them under the thumb.
velox_neb 3y ago
You sound like ChatGPT.

calvinmorrison 3y ago

A single cable.... can we at least get dedicated emergency flasher wiring?

jollyllama 3y ago

From what I understand, even ICE cars have more wiring than ever.

tinco 3y ago
I think it's a reference to something Elon Musk recently said about the 48 volt system in the Cybertruck. Apparently switching to 48v allows them to use ethernet in the car and save 77% on wiring. I'm not sure why 48V specifically makes this feasible, though it definitely makes it more efficient (and lighter). I watched a video on it a couple weeks ago and it made sense to me then, now I'm not sure why you couldn't make a 12V network. Maybe it's just more expensive. Apparently the Cybertruck is the only or one of the very few cars that have done this.
- jollyllama 3y ago
  Thanks for the explainer, the 1989 comment threw me off.
- bluGill 3y ago
  48V isn't what enables Ethernet, it does however make it more useful. 48V enables high power things to be scattered around the car - voltage loss from the front to the back of a car at 12V is an issue, and cars spend a lot of money on large wires to work around that. High power things scattered around the car often can take advantage of Ethernet. things that cannot get a lot of power can get by on lower bandwidth data buses.
  - bbarn 3y ago
    The 12V loss is something that really sunk in working on older cars. You wouldn't think a cable that read 0 on the ohmeter could still not sufficiently carry power, but it happens. Starter systems especially - My old van I remember wouldn't start once and all I had to do was clean the terminals on the battery with a wire brush.
- Maxion 3y ago
  48V is a common POE standard. But Musk is again blowing a bunch of smoke.

_ea1k 3y ago

Agreed, the VW approach here looks pretty good. It might even have fewer physical controls than the id.4?

seszett 3y ago

> you don't need [...] 9 buttons for favorite radio stations. It certainly is nice being able to switch to one of a handful of stations with just one press, though. Why not have that?

alkonaut 3y ago
I think that's one of pretty few things that a touch screen does pretty well. You have a list of items and you click the item. You lose the tactile but you get a huge button that says "Jazz classics 101.2 FM" instead. It's a tradeoff that's totally worth it I think especially if you already have real buttons for up/down on the steering wheel. Making 10 buttons and hooking them to specific (and unknown!) radio stations seems like a waste of space.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

fishywang 3y ago

They should just copy Mazda's design, a screen that's not touch enabled and do not need to be put within arm's reach (so it can be put further away, and thus closer to driver's point of view when driving, that driver just need to glance slightly to the side to see the screen). Then physical buttons/controls for common things (volume, wiper, etc.), and a general knob for navigating things on the screen.