5 ms·

I absolute prefer proper physical interfaces for the most commonly used things. Like steering, acceleration, breaking, blinking, volume control, door handles,

I absolute prefer proper physical interfaces for the most commonly used things. Like steering, acceleration, breaking, blinking, volume control, door handles, wipers, that sort of things. These are things I would use almost every drive. However, I would prefer to plan my navigation, browse settings, configure the car, and peruse statistics on a nice snappy capacitive display UI. Please do keep/build that.

sigmoid10 3y ago
It's really simple: Anything that needs adjustment during driving should be a physical button so I can interact with it without looking away from the road. Especially basic climate and media controls have no business in cascaded touchscreen menus and these things probably have caused countless accidents.
- metafunctor 3y ago
  I've been driving a new Tesla for the past months, and the on-screen climate and media controls actually don't bother me much at all. Granted, it's not actually a cascaded menu, so maybe I'm not really responding to your argument at all. Which car does have climate controls hidden in a cascaded menu, and not available more easily? In a Tesla, these things are in a predictable place physically and the controls respond quite nicely. I can use the scroll buttons and other buttons on the yoke to control these and various other things without taking my eyes off the traffic. There's even good voice control for things like navigation (“take me home”). However, I've encountered some challenges with the blinker controls, particularly when the yoke isn't upright. I've gotten more accustomed to their placement and can usually find the right spot instinctively, but occasionally, they either don't respond or I press the wrong area. It's a minor but noticeable annoyance. I'm thinking about adding tactile stickers to the wheel to help identify these spots more easily.
  - zelos 3y ago
    > However, I've encountered some challenges with the blinker controls, particularly when the yoke isn't upright. The blinker control placement confused me: how do you change the indicator direction when turning off a roundabout? With a stalk it's just a press down with your little finger, but surely with buttons that move with the wheel it's harder? Or is the yoke on a Tesla so sensitive that you don't turn it far enough round for it to be an issue?
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      > Or is the yoke on a Tesla so sensitive that you don't turn it far enough round for it to be an issue? That seems to be the intended direction longer term. Cybertruck is designed with drive by wire and very sensitive steering at low speed. I have some doubts about it, but if it works well, it may eventually end up in the other cars too.
      - metafunctor 3y ago
        Hah, that is definitely not the short term result. The yoke is upside down every drive for me. Just getting out of the driveway it's going to be upside down. The yoke is fine doing extreme turns, my hands find it and I can turn it all ways very quickly multiple turns. I'm not concerned of “extreme situations” or anything like that. But when I want to "blink right" it's a real fucking problem to figure out where exactly on the yoke I should exert sufficient pressure. Unless the yoke is upright and I'm “holding it right”; as it were :)
        natch 3y ago
        I guess this only affects you if want to signal after you’re already in a turn?
        metafunctor 3y ago
        Like when exiting a roundabout? I have at least one almost everywhere I go…
  - amluto 3y ago
    On a Tesla S, the media controls are not in a predictable place, and the climate controls need a menu for anything other than a temperature change.
    - metafunctor 3y ago
      This is, in my experience, incorrect. Driving a recent Model S. Selecting the temperature can be done on the wheel, or with a single press on the screen in a predictable spot. Same with media: play, stop, volume, next, previous. Other adjustments, yes, those may need a modal interaction. Much like physical dials. I would slightly prefer physical dials, but not something I would need to adjust during drives almost ever, so I don’t see a problem here.
      - amluto 3y ago
        I don’t know about recent ones, but in old ones you need to long press the wheel to get a menu to select what it controls, then select a mode, then adjust the temp. And the media controls are a mess that changes periodically with updates.
  - natch 3y ago
    For others reading, most Teslas have traditional stalks still; the yoke issues mentioned are in Model S, Model X, and Cybertruck. And maybe less of an issue in Cybertruck with steer by wire.
- ajross 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, which car are you thinking about that places climate and media controls in a cascaded menu? I don't think this happens. In a Tesla, for example, volume/play/pause/skip/back are all on the left thumbwheel and the climate temperature is fixed at the bottom left of the screen in all UI modes (well, you can hide it with a game/video, but not while driving). I worry HN has gotten itself into an "alternate facts" mode again with this subject, where the hyperbole has led people to assume facts that don't exist. The real world is always more boring than the most upvoted comment.
  - scarab92 3y ago
    Are you able to adjust the temperature without looking at the screen? Being a flat pane of glass, I would worry that you need to use hand-eye coordination to locate the button, whereas with a physical button you can feel for it without looking.
    - natch 3y ago
      I usually adjust the climate five minutes before getting to my car.
    - enlightenedfool 3y ago
      Press the right knob once and issue voice command. That’s it.
  - phito 3y ago
    My new Peugeot has climate control on the touch screen, and I have to click a menu button to access it
  - nottorp 3y ago
    Which Tesla are you talking about? In the one I've driven (mind, just once and never again thank you) I couldn't find the temperature controls on that stupid tablet. And even if it's always visible on the touch screen while driving, I still need to look at the touch screen right? My main use case for climate controls is turning recirculation on/off when i come up behind a clunker where there's no space to overtake and need to recirculate so I don't suffocate. That is not a good time to take your eyes off the road, except maybe if you're Elon Musk. Also, on the one Tesla I've driven i couldn't understand how the turn stalk (it still had a physical turn stalk, I believe Musk has apologized for not removing that one physical control from the car) worked. It only signaled while i was holding it when i wanted it to stay signaling and the reverse. Useless in any intersection that's not at 90 degrees. Designed in California :)
- hef19898 3y ago
  Jaguar does that, at least in the latest XE (which stole the screens and such from the iPace if I am not mistaken): - climate control, driving modes, gearbox etc... are all physical buttons. As is entertainment if you count the steering wheel buttons. - radio, navigation phone and some other non essentials are touch screens (there are two of those) - car parameters and display are controlled by buttons on the steering wheel and displayed at the display unit As it should be. Only thing I miss is buttons for the touch screen controls, but then the screen is reactive enough, even with gloves, so it is not really an issue.
- ametrau 3y ago
  100%. How is this not basic common sense. How did we get to this point?
YetAnotherNick 3y ago
Agreed for others but I don't think you have driven a car with physical steering if you think they are good.
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  I don't think "without power assist" was the intention.
- metafunctor 3y ago
  A long time ago, I was a kart racing enthusiast, so I've always appreciated the direct, visible connection between the steering wheel and the wheels. It offers a tangible, physical sense of control. Not sure what Tesla did with the Model S, but it almost feels like a kart car in this sense. The steering responds immediately, and I can “feel” the road. I obviously don't see the front wheels, but still I know exactly how they lay at all times.
  - kaptainscarlet 3y ago
    They tend to compensate for that lack of physical connect using complicated force feedback systems these days.
- smolder 3y ago
  Maybe you didn't know, but on the vast majority of cars there is a physical link so if power assist fails, you are still turning the tires. But as someone who drove a Toyota pickup around with completely manual steering, I'd say it's only really bad at low speeds, where it's a bit of an arm workout.
  - YetAnotherNick 3y ago
    I know that, but OP said they "prefer proper physical interface" not something that they just want for safety. My preference is physical for everything else like windshield etc. but power assist is too convenient to not want that.
  - 3y ago
2devnull 3y ago
I won’t own a car with a touchscreen. Ever. If I were given such a vehicle, I would get rid of it quickly. My last car purchase it was not easy to find a newer vehicle without that junk. I see such things as signs of low quality. I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars on anything connected to some cheap Chinese touch pad. It ruins the entire experience. If I wanted navigation I’d use my phone. Any car I have to configure, I will loath deeply.
- danielvaughn 3y ago
  Have you ever driven a Tesla? I drove one last year and literally all you get is a touch screen. IIRC you even use the touch screen to change gears. It's insane. I did get used to it, but overall I absolutely loathe touch screens in vehicles. If I can't modify something without averting my eyes from the road, then I consider it a massive safety hazard. I'll never understand how regulators approved these things.
  - 2devnull 3y ago
    No. I don’t have a lot of money, and am skeptical they or other shiny new tech toys can save the planet via consumerism. I’m pro-Tesla on net. Everyone in the upper middle class were buying Lexus’ and Suburbans before Tesla came along, so I imagine many thousands of tons less pollution than the counter-factual. But probably buying a brand new Tesla isn’t cooling the atmosphere appreciably. In any case, I’m not that counter-factual. To the extent I like cars, and I kind of do, I like those with character and manual gears. I try to limit my driving, but when I have to drive, I enjoy the full experience.
  - natch 3y ago
    >literally all you get is a touch screen There were no buttons on the steering wheel? Which model? >you even use the touch screen to change gears. Wow, really wondering now which Tesla model did you drive, where you had to change gears?
    - danielvaughn 3y ago
      I can't remember which model, by "gears" I mean reverse, neutral, drive, etc.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thworp 3y ago
I think older BMWs (with only iDrive and no touchscreen) and current Mazdas have the most ergonomic and easy to use head unit setup. Since there is no touchscreen the headunit is just below the windscreen (easy to glance at while keeping road in peripheral vision). The knob has 6 inputs (4-axis tilt and rotation) and you get additional buttons around the knob. The knob also works in carplay (rotation changes focus, tilt does stuff like moving the map) and I bet after a few hours you'd be faster and more accurate than on a touchscreen with that. The only thing I always wish for is to get CarPlay navigation into the OEM HUD/instrument screen. > on a nice snappy capacitive display UI. Heh, until very recently a lot of manufacturers' infotainment was comically unresponsive, VW being a standout there (along with the worst-in-class screens). I wouldnt be opposed to have an option of touchscreen control (current BMWs have that), except that touchscreens are neccesarily placed so low that you have to take your eyes almost fully off the road.

sigmoid10 3y ago

It's really simple: Anything that needs adjustment during driving should be a physical button so I can interact with it without looking away from the road. Especially basic climate and media controls have no business in cascaded touchscreen menus and these things probably have caused countless accidents.

metafunctor 3y ago
I've been driving a new Tesla for the past months, and the on-screen climate and media controls actually don't bother me much at all. Granted, it's not actually a cascaded menu, so maybe I'm not really responding to your argument at all. Which car does have climate controls hidden in a cascaded menu, and not available more easily? In a Tesla, these things are in a predictable place physically and the controls respond quite nicely. I can use the scroll buttons and other buttons on the yoke to control these and various other things without taking my eyes off the traffic. There's even good voice control for things like navigation (“take me home”). However, I've encountered some challenges with the blinker controls, particularly when the yoke isn't upright. I've gotten more accustomed to their placement and can usually find the right spot instinctively, but occasionally, they either don't respond or I press the wrong area. It's a minor but noticeable annoyance. I'm thinking about adding tactile stickers to the wheel to help identify these spots more easily.
- zelos 3y ago
  > However, I've encountered some challenges with the blinker controls, particularly when the yoke isn't upright. The blinker control placement confused me: how do you change the indicator direction when turning off a roundabout? With a stalk it's just a press down with your little finger, but surely with buttons that move with the wheel it's harder? Or is the yoke on a Tesla so sensitive that you don't turn it far enough round for it to be an issue?
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    > Or is the yoke on a Tesla so sensitive that you don't turn it far enough round for it to be an issue? That seems to be the intended direction longer term. Cybertruck is designed with drive by wire and very sensitive steering at low speed. I have some doubts about it, but if it works well, it may eventually end up in the other cars too.
    - metafunctor 3y ago
      Hah, that is definitely not the short term result. The yoke is upside down every drive for me. Just getting out of the driveway it's going to be upside down. The yoke is fine doing extreme turns, my hands find it and I can turn it all ways very quickly multiple turns. I'm not concerned of “extreme situations” or anything like that. But when I want to "blink right" it's a real fucking problem to figure out where exactly on the yoke I should exert sufficient pressure. Unless the yoke is upright and I'm “holding it right”; as it were :)
      - natch 3y ago
        I guess this only affects you if want to signal after you’re already in a turn?
        metafunctor 3y ago
        Like when exiting a roundabout? I have at least one almost everywhere I go…
- amluto 3y ago
  On a Tesla S, the media controls are not in a predictable place, and the climate controls need a menu for anything other than a temperature change.
  - metafunctor 3y ago
    This is, in my experience, incorrect. Driving a recent Model S. Selecting the temperature can be done on the wheel, or with a single press on the screen in a predictable spot. Same with media: play, stop, volume, next, previous. Other adjustments, yes, those may need a modal interaction. Much like physical dials. I would slightly prefer physical dials, but not something I would need to adjust during drives almost ever, so I don’t see a problem here.
    - amluto 3y ago
      I don’t know about recent ones, but in old ones you need to long press the wheel to get a menu to select what it controls, then select a mode, then adjust the temp. And the media controls are a mess that changes periodically with updates.
- natch 3y ago
  For others reading, most Teslas have traditional stalks still; the yoke issues mentioned are in Model S, Model X, and Cybertruck. And maybe less of an issue in Cybertruck with steer by wire.
ajross 3y ago
Out of curiosity, which car are you thinking about that places climate and media controls in a cascaded menu? I don't think this happens. In a Tesla, for example, volume/play/pause/skip/back are all on the left thumbwheel and the climate temperature is fixed at the bottom left of the screen in all UI modes (well, you can hide it with a game/video, but not while driving). I worry HN has gotten itself into an "alternate facts" mode again with this subject, where the hyperbole has led people to assume facts that don't exist. The real world is always more boring than the most upvoted comment.
- scarab92 3y ago
  Are you able to adjust the temperature without looking at the screen? Being a flat pane of glass, I would worry that you need to use hand-eye coordination to locate the button, whereas with a physical button you can feel for it without looking.
  - natch 3y ago
    I usually adjust the climate five minutes before getting to my car.
  - enlightenedfool 3y ago
    Press the right knob once and issue voice command. That’s it.
- phito 3y ago
  My new Peugeot has climate control on the touch screen, and I have to click a menu button to access it
- nottorp 3y ago
  Which Tesla are you talking about? In the one I've driven (mind, just once and never again thank you) I couldn't find the temperature controls on that stupid tablet. And even if it's always visible on the touch screen while driving, I still need to look at the touch screen right? My main use case for climate controls is turning recirculation on/off when i come up behind a clunker where there's no space to overtake and need to recirculate so I don't suffocate. That is not a good time to take your eyes off the road, except maybe if you're Elon Musk. Also, on the one Tesla I've driven i couldn't understand how the turn stalk (it still had a physical turn stalk, I believe Musk has apologized for not removing that one physical control from the car) worked. It only signaled while i was holding it when i wanted it to stay signaling and the reverse. Useless in any intersection that's not at 90 degrees. Designed in California :)
hef19898 3y ago
Jaguar does that, at least in the latest XE (which stole the screens and such from the iPace if I am not mistaken): - climate control, driving modes, gearbox etc... are all physical buttons. As is entertainment if you count the steering wheel buttons. - radio, navigation phone and some other non essentials are touch screens (there are two of those) - car parameters and display are controlled by buttons on the steering wheel and displayed at the display unit As it should be. Only thing I miss is buttons for the touch screen controls, but then the screen is reactive enough, even with gloves, so it is not really an issue.
ametrau 3y ago
100%. How is this not basic common sense. How did we get to this point?

YetAnotherNick 3y ago

Agreed for others but I don't think you have driven a car with physical steering if you think they are good.

actionfromafar 3y ago
I don't think "without power assist" was the intention.
metafunctor 3y ago
A long time ago, I was a kart racing enthusiast, so I've always appreciated the direct, visible connection between the steering wheel and the wheels. It offers a tangible, physical sense of control. Not sure what Tesla did with the Model S, but it almost feels like a kart car in this sense. The steering responds immediately, and I can “feel” the road. I obviously don't see the front wheels, but still I know exactly how they lay at all times.
- kaptainscarlet 3y ago
  They tend to compensate for that lack of physical connect using complicated force feedback systems these days.
smolder 3y ago
Maybe you didn't know, but on the vast majority of cars there is a physical link so if power assist fails, you are still turning the tires. But as someone who drove a Toyota pickup around with completely manual steering, I'd say it's only really bad at low speeds, where it's a bit of an arm workout.
- YetAnotherNick 3y ago
  I know that, but OP said they "prefer proper physical interface" not something that they just want for safety. My preference is physical for everything else like windshield etc. but power assist is too convenient to not want that.
- 3y ago

2devnull 3y ago

I won’t own a car with a touchscreen. Ever. If I were given such a vehicle, I would get rid of it quickly. My last car purchase it was not easy to find a newer vehicle without that junk. I see such things as signs of low quality. I don’t want to spend thousands of dollars on anything connected to some cheap Chinese touch pad. It ruins the entire experience. If I wanted navigation I’d use my phone. Any car I have to configure, I will loath deeply.

danielvaughn 3y ago
Have you ever driven a Tesla? I drove one last year and literally all you get is a touch screen. IIRC you even use the touch screen to change gears. It's insane. I did get used to it, but overall I absolutely loathe touch screens in vehicles. If I can't modify something without averting my eyes from the road, then I consider it a massive safety hazard. I'll never understand how regulators approved these things.
- 2devnull 3y ago
  No. I don’t have a lot of money, and am skeptical they or other shiny new tech toys can save the planet via consumerism. I’m pro-Tesla on net. Everyone in the upper middle class were buying Lexus’ and Suburbans before Tesla came along, so I imagine many thousands of tons less pollution than the counter-factual. But probably buying a brand new Tesla isn’t cooling the atmosphere appreciably. In any case, I’m not that counter-factual. To the extent I like cars, and I kind of do, I like those with character and manual gears. I try to limit my driving, but when I have to drive, I enjoy the full experience.
- natch 3y ago
  >literally all you get is a touch screen There were no buttons on the steering wheel? Which model? >you even use the touch screen to change gears. Wow, really wondering now which Tesla model did you drive, where you had to change gears?
  - danielvaughn 3y ago
    I can't remember which model, by "gears" I mean reverse, neutral, drive, etc.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

thworp 3y ago

I think older BMWs (with only iDrive and no touchscreen) and current Mazdas have the most ergonomic and easy to use head unit setup. Since there is no touchscreen the headunit is just below the windscreen (easy to glance at while keeping road in peripheral vision). The knob has 6 inputs (4-axis tilt and rotation) and you get additional buttons around the knob. The knob also works in carplay (rotation changes focus, tilt does stuff like moving the map) and I bet after a few hours you'd be faster and more accurate than on a touchscreen with that. The only thing I always wish for is to get CarPlay navigation into the OEM HUD/instrument screen. > on a nice snappy capacitive display UI. Heh, until very recently a lot of manufacturers' infotainment was comically unresponsive, VW being a standout there (along with the worst-in-class screens). I wouldnt be opposed to have an option of touchscreen control (current BMWs have that), except that touchscreens are neccesarily placed so low that you have to take your eyes almost fully off the road.