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UL isn't actually mandatory in the US. The only thing mandatory that I am aware of is FCC certification for devices with signals over a certain number of Hz, an

by jdboyd 3y ago

UL isn't actually mandatory in the US. The only thing mandatory that I am aware of is FCC certification for devices with signals over a certain number of Hz, and they wouldn't care about a USB port being abused.

couchand 3y ago
Good luck filing an insurance claim for damage caused by the use of a non-UL-listed appliance.
- hiatus 3y ago
  What language in an insurance policy requires the use of UL-listed appliances for coverage?
  - brk 3y ago
    None. Stuff like the post you are replying to is common "good luck with insurance" trope. Insurance protects you from stupidity, errors, and negligence. It doesn't protect you from fraud or intentional malice, but using an uncertified device is not fraud. Note that after an accident related to personal stupidity or error, an insurance company could decide you are too risky to further insure, or that the cost for your insurance should increase dramatically. But they can't deny a claim. All of this is of course a significant summary, but insurance won't (can't?) deny a claim linked to an uncertified electrical device in normal circumstances.
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
      I used to work for a major clothing retailer. Our insurance policies did require us to use UL certified appliances in our stores.
      - teddyh 3y ago
        Did you read the policy, or is this what somebody told you?
        sleepybrett 3y ago
        The head of store told me it was the policy because of insurance requirements we were looking at buying a paneled LED display/wall and UL vs Non-Certified was a large price difference. In the end we paid for UL. (They were actually probably identical panels, non-cert was from china, UL was from a us supplier)
mike50 3y ago
https://www.osha.gov/nationally-recognized-testing-laboratory-program/products-requiring-approval https://www.osha.gov/nationally-recognized-testing-laborator...
NelsonMinar 3y ago
I recently ran into this buying an EVSE to charge my car. Amazon in the US is full of imports from generic Chinese brands that are half the price of name brands but not UL certified. Many of them say "UL certified cable" which doesn't tell you anything about the entire charging unit, just the wire stock they used. It's all fraud. And at 40 amps, potentially quite dangerous.
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
I read somewhere, that there's no such thing as a UL-approved turkey fryer. https://www.ul.com/news/put-safety-menu-thanksgiving https://www.ul.com/news/put-safety-menu-thanksgiving I think that is still the case.
- sleepybrett 3y ago
  Every turkey frier I've ever seen is a propane burner and a well sized pot to put on top of it. 0 electronics unless they have a thermostat type feature (which I've never seen).
  - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
    I’m pretty sure UL applies their testing to anything with safety ramifications.
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
      Gotcha, I thought it was just an electrical certification. However if they won't certify a propane burner and a pot just because it's labeled 'turkey frier'... i'm not sure how they can certify any gas grill, gas range or propane burner of any kind.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
        Has to do with the large amounts of flammable oil that inevitably spill out. Some years ago, I saw a video, done by Consumer Reports, I think, that showed a fireman, in full heat gear, using a turkey fryer, and showing how incredibly easy it is to spill oil. Every Thanksgiving, there are always quite a few turkey fryer accidents.
        sleepybrett 3y ago
        Yes. This is because people do stupid shit. 1) they overfill the pot, even though every frier I have ever purchased comes with a table of turkey weight to oil (not perfect obv but generally they are conservative, at worst you must add a little oil once the bird is in the frier). Sometimes this table is literally etched into the pot. Failure here will overflow the oil and send it into the burner causing a fire, once that fire reaches the inside of the pot .. yaknow, not great. 2) they don't sufficiently dry the bird or even worse put it in frozen. The previous causes potential spatter that could 'boil over' and cause fire. The later i've seen some videos of .. much less great. Let's be clear, you can do exactly this stupid shit deep frying something on your stovestop, at least with a turkey frier you can be outside away from flammable things. It's pretty easy to deep fry a turkey safely and in fact every year I probably fry between 10-15 birds (I love turkey). On thanksgiving I generally end up frying 5-7 birds for my family and some of the neighbors who either are to scared or just don't want to buy a setup, either way I'm happy to do it for them. 1) make sure your oil level is right according to the pots instruction. 2) make sure your bird is thawed and pat it dry inside and out 3) heat the oil on the burner, but move the pot off the burner before inserting the turkey, also remove the pot before removing the turkey. 4) watch your temperatures and keep the lid on.
Gracana 3y ago
Some devices do require a NRTL (nationally recognized testing laboratory) mark. That could mean UL or TUV or whatever. NFPA 70 will refer to “listed” or “recognized” devices in such cases.

by jdboyd 3y ago

couchand 3y ago

Good luck filing an insurance claim for damage caused by the use of a non-UL-listed appliance.

hiatus 3y ago
What language in an insurance policy requires the use of UL-listed appliances for coverage?
- brk 3y ago
  None. Stuff like the post you are replying to is common "good luck with insurance" trope. Insurance protects you from stupidity, errors, and negligence. It doesn't protect you from fraud or intentional malice, but using an uncertified device is not fraud. Note that after an accident related to personal stupidity or error, an insurance company could decide you are too risky to further insure, or that the cost for your insurance should increase dramatically. But they can't deny a claim. All of this is of course a significant summary, but insurance won't (can't?) deny a claim linked to an uncertified electrical device in normal circumstances.
  - sleepybrett 3y ago
    I used to work for a major clothing retailer. Our insurance policies did require us to use UL certified appliances in our stores.
    - teddyh 3y ago
      Did you read the policy, or is this what somebody told you?
      - sleepybrett 3y ago
        The head of store told me it was the policy because of insurance requirements we were looking at buying a paneled LED display/wall and UL vs Non-Certified was a large price difference. In the end we paid for UL. (They were actually probably identical panels, non-cert was from china, UL was from a us supplier)

mike50 3y ago

https://www.osha.gov/nationally-recognized-testing-laboratory-program/products-requiring-approval https://www.osha.gov/nationally-recognized-testing-laborator...

NelsonMinar 3y ago

I recently ran into this buying an EVSE to charge my car. Amazon in the US is full of imports from generic Chinese brands that are half the price of name brands but not UL certified. Many of them say "UL certified cable" which doesn't tell you anything about the entire charging unit, just the wire stock they used. It's all fraud. And at 40 amps, potentially quite dangerous.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

I read somewhere, that there's no such thing as a UL-approved turkey fryer. https://www.ul.com/news/put-safety-menu-thanksgiving https://www.ul.com/news/put-safety-menu-thanksgiving I think that is still the case.

sleepybrett 3y ago
Every turkey frier I've ever seen is a propane burner and a well sized pot to put on top of it. 0 electronics unless they have a thermostat type feature (which I've never seen).
- ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure UL applies their testing to anything with safety ramifications.
  - sleepybrett 3y ago
    Gotcha, I thought it was just an electrical certification. However if they won't certify a propane burner and a pot just because it's labeled 'turkey frier'... i'm not sure how they can certify any gas grill, gas range or propane burner of any kind.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
      Has to do with the large amounts of flammable oil that inevitably spill out. Some years ago, I saw a video, done by Consumer Reports, I think, that showed a fireman, in full heat gear, using a turkey fryer, and showing how incredibly easy it is to spill oil. Every Thanksgiving, there are always quite a few turkey fryer accidents.
      - sleepybrett 3y ago
        Yes. This is because people do stupid shit. 1) they overfill the pot, even though every frier I have ever purchased comes with a table of turkey weight to oil (not perfect obv but generally they are conservative, at worst you must add a little oil once the bird is in the frier). Sometimes this table is literally etched into the pot. Failure here will overflow the oil and send it into the burner causing a fire, once that fire reaches the inside of the pot .. yaknow, not great. 2) they don't sufficiently dry the bird or even worse put it in frozen. The previous causes potential spatter that could 'boil over' and cause fire. The later i've seen some videos of .. much less great. Let's be clear, you can do exactly this stupid shit deep frying something on your stovestop, at least with a turkey frier you can be outside away from flammable things. It's pretty easy to deep fry a turkey safely and in fact every year I probably fry between 10-15 birds (I love turkey). On thanksgiving I generally end up frying 5-7 birds for my family and some of the neighbors who either are to scared or just don't want to buy a setup, either way I'm happy to do it for them. 1) make sure your oil level is right according to the pots instruction. 2) make sure your bird is thawed and pat it dry inside and out 3) heat the oil on the burner, but move the pot off the burner before inserting the turkey, also remove the pot before removing the turkey. 4) watch your temperatures and keep the lid on.

Gracana 3y ago

Some devices do require a NRTL (nationally recognized testing laboratory) mark. That could mean UL or TUV or whatever. NFPA 70 will refer to “listed” or “recognized” devices in such cases.