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It's got a CE mark, but it's unclear if it's valid or not. This is a mandatory certification in the EU, like the UL listing in the US. The device is specifying

It's got a CE mark, but it's unclear if it's valid or not. This is a mandatory certification in the EU, like the UL listing in the US. The device is specifying the output voltage, which isn't in spec for the connector, but it is (apparently) accurate.

currency 3y ago
There's a deceptively similar mark that stands for China Export and does not indicate EU certification[0]. [0]https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-china-export-markings/ https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-c...
- cjrp 3y ago
  Wow, that's incredibly close. I assumed there would be a public database of CE (European) approved devices or manufacturers, but I can't find one from a quick search.
  - blibble 3y ago
    CE mark (the real one) is self certified
  - dagw 3y ago
    The CE marking is a self certification program, and there isn't an approval process. All the can happen is that you can get fined after the fact for applying the mark to products which don't fulfil the necessary requirements.
    - anilakar 3y ago
      Technically it is a self-certification program, since it's the device manufacturer who signs the certificate, but that's not the whole truth. A manufacturer still needs to prove compliance (in the case of the EMC directive, either Annex II or III) or slapping on the mark is just fraud.
- piaste 3y ago
  For context, this isn't an official mark created by China or any other entity. It's just some fraudulent manufactures that are using a paper-thin excuse to illegally apply a fake CE mark.
- notpushkin 3y ago
  Looks like CE to me: https://u.ale.sh/iaN5ie.png https://u.ale.sh/iaN5ie.png It is a self-certification mark though so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- teddyh 3y ago
  There is no such thing as a “China Export” mark. No products has been shown to have it. It’s a fake urban legend: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CE_marking&oldid=1189832308#%22China_Export%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CE_marking&oldid=...>
  - currency 3y ago
    That's so interesting. I've just done a quick dive into my electronics. I have a Tonbux power strip where the C and E are definitely too close together. Edit:The website I linked is a Chinese manufacturer. If it was an urban legend, it seems to be being treated as fact in a way that matters now.
    - teddyh 3y ago
      > I have a Tonbux power strip where the C and E are definitely too close together. As per Wikipedia, quoting the European Commission, people displaying the CE logo with incorrect dimensions exist. This does not prove the legend. > Edit:The website I linked is a Chinese manufacturer. If it was an urban legend, it seems to be being treated as fact in a way that matters now. Please stop spreading urban legends on the basis that other people believe in them.
      - currency 3y ago
        I'm not interested in arguing you out of your surety. I do want to note that I believe that when an urban legend is implemented in reality, it is no longer a legend. And you aren't going to argue me out of expressing my opinion.
        teddyh 3y ago
        > when an urban legend is implemented in reality But you have presented no proof of that. What has been shown so far is that: • One Chinese web site presents the information as factual, i.e. a simple retelling of the legend. • Equipment exists which have the wrong dimensions on the CE logo. What you have not proven (and neither has anyone else) is that some manufacturer has actually used the faulty CE dimensions to try to claim that they weren’t trying to show a CE mark, but instead this mythical “China Export” mark. Note that for the legend to work, it has to be some sort of benefit for the manufacturer, namely that they must be able to get out of being accused of falsely displaying a CE mark by, when accused, instead claiming that the CE mark is not in fact a CE mark. But this must be claimed publically by the manufacturer. Surely someone should have some example of this happening by now?
lxgr 3y ago
Fair point, but given that some manufacturers have no problem at all to just blatantly use brand names without permission, having a CE mark is unfortunately not a sure sign that a device has ever been inside a certification lab…
jdboyd 3y ago
UL isn't actually mandatory in the US. The only thing mandatory that I am aware of is FCC certification for devices with signals over a certain number of Hz, and they wouldn't care about a USB port being abused.
- couchand 3y ago
  Good luck filing an insurance claim for damage caused by the use of a non-UL-listed appliance.
  - hiatus 3y ago
    What language in an insurance policy requires the use of UL-listed appliances for coverage?
    - brk 3y ago
      None. Stuff like the post you are replying to is common "good luck with insurance" trope. Insurance protects you from stupidity, errors, and negligence. It doesn't protect you from fraud or intentional malice, but using an uncertified device is not fraud. Note that after an accident related to personal stupidity or error, an insurance company could decide you are too risky to further insure, or that the cost for your insurance should increase dramatically. But they can't deny a claim. All of this is of course a significant summary, but insurance won't (can't?) deny a claim linked to an uncertified electrical device in normal circumstances.
      - sleepybrett 3y ago
        I used to work for a major clothing retailer. Our insurance policies did require us to use UL certified appliances in our stores.
        teddyh 3y ago
        Did you read the policy, or is this what somebody told you?
jeroenhd 3y ago
Anyone can stick a CE sticker onto their products. It's a self certification mark, and I've never heard of a company ever getting in trouble over this stuff. All it says is "I promise to follow the CE rules" but there are no mandatory audits or anything, unless a company gets found out to be violating the spec. I don't think the CE mark protects consumers the way it could decades ago, with international imports taking a few seconds and free postage to boot.
pjc50 3y ago
It's mandatory to have the CE mark. It's a self-certification. You can decide how much that's actually worth for non-EU vendors.
ForOldHack 3y ago
The device is specifying the output voltage, in very black, very tiny letters. How convenient. The person who took this almost impossible photograph should get a Pulitzer. No quantitative measurement for the real voltage, or current for that matter. https://donglec.com/blogs/journal/are-third-party-chargers-harmful-to-apple-devices https://donglec.com/blogs/journal/are-third-party-chargers-h...

currency 3y ago

There's a deceptively similar mark that stands for China Export and does not indicate EU certification[0]. [0]https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-china-export-markings/ https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-c...

cjrp 3y ago
Wow, that's incredibly close. I assumed there would be a public database of CE (European) approved devices or manufacturers, but I can't find one from a quick search.
- blibble 3y ago
  CE mark (the real one) is self certified
- dagw 3y ago
  The CE marking is a self certification program, and there isn't an approval process. All the can happen is that you can get fined after the fact for applying the mark to products which don't fulfil the necessary requirements.
  - anilakar 3y ago
    Technically it is a self-certification program, since it's the device manufacturer who signs the certificate, but that's not the whole truth. A manufacturer still needs to prove compliance (in the case of the EMC directive, either Annex II or III) or slapping on the mark is just fraud.
piaste 3y ago
For context, this isn't an official mark created by China or any other entity. It's just some fraudulent manufactures that are using a paper-thin excuse to illegally apply a fake CE mark.
notpushkin 3y ago
Looks like CE to me: https://u.ale.sh/iaN5ie.png https://u.ale.sh/iaN5ie.png It is a self-certification mark though so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
teddyh 3y ago
There is no such thing as a “China Export” mark. No products has been shown to have it. It’s a fake urban legend: <https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CE_marking&oldid=1189832308#%22China_Export%22 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=CE_marking&oldid=...>
- currency 3y ago
  That's so interesting. I've just done a quick dive into my electronics. I have a Tonbux power strip where the C and E are definitely too close together. Edit:The website I linked is a Chinese manufacturer. If it was an urban legend, it seems to be being treated as fact in a way that matters now.
  - teddyh 3y ago
    > I have a Tonbux power strip where the C and E are definitely too close together. As per Wikipedia, quoting the European Commission, people displaying the CE logo with incorrect dimensions exist. This does not prove the legend. > Edit:The website I linked is a Chinese manufacturer. If it was an urban legend, it seems to be being treated as fact in a way that matters now. Please stop spreading urban legends on the basis that other people believe in them.
    - currency 3y ago
      I'm not interested in arguing you out of your surety. I do want to note that I believe that when an urban legend is implemented in reality, it is no longer a legend. And you aren't going to argue me out of expressing my opinion.
      - teddyh 3y ago
        > when an urban legend is implemented in reality But you have presented no proof of that. What has been shown so far is that: • One Chinese web site presents the information as factual, i.e. a simple retelling of the legend. • Equipment exists which have the wrong dimensions on the CE logo. What you have not proven (and neither has anyone else) is that some manufacturer has actually used the faulty CE dimensions to try to claim that they weren’t trying to show a CE mark, but instead this mythical “China Export” mark. Note that for the legend to work, it has to be some sort of benefit for the manufacturer, namely that they must be able to get out of being accused of falsely displaying a CE mark by, when accused, instead claiming that the CE mark is not in fact a CE mark. But this must be claimed publically by the manufacturer. Surely someone should have some example of this happening by now?

lxgr 3y ago

Fair point, but given that some manufacturers have no problem at all to just blatantly use brand names without permission, having a CE mark is unfortunately not a sure sign that a device has ever been inside a certification lab…

jdboyd 3y ago

UL isn't actually mandatory in the US. The only thing mandatory that I am aware of is FCC certification for devices with signals over a certain number of Hz, and they wouldn't care about a USB port being abused.

couchand 3y ago
Good luck filing an insurance claim for damage caused by the use of a non-UL-listed appliance.
- hiatus 3y ago
  What language in an insurance policy requires the use of UL-listed appliances for coverage?
  - brk 3y ago
    None. Stuff like the post you are replying to is common "good luck with insurance" trope. Insurance protects you from stupidity, errors, and negligence. It doesn't protect you from fraud or intentional malice, but using an uncertified device is not fraud. Note that after an accident related to personal stupidity or error, an insurance company could decide you are too risky to further insure, or that the cost for your insurance should increase dramatically. But they can't deny a claim. All of this is of course a significant summary, but insurance won't (can't?) deny a claim linked to an uncertified electrical device in normal circumstances.
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
      I used to work for a major clothing retailer. Our insurance policies did require us to use UL certified appliances in our stores.
      - teddyh 3y ago
        Did you read the policy, or is this what somebody told you?

jeroenhd 3y ago

Anyone can stick a CE sticker onto their products. It's a self certification mark, and I've never heard of a company ever getting in trouble over this stuff. All it says is "I promise to follow the CE rules" but there are no mandatory audits or anything, unless a company gets found out to be violating the spec. I don't think the CE mark protects consumers the way it could decades ago, with international imports taking a few seconds and free postage to boot.

pjc50 3y ago

It's mandatory to have the CE mark. It's a self-certification. You can decide how much that's actually worth for non-EU vendors.

ForOldHack 3y ago

The device is specifying the output voltage, in very black, very tiny letters. How convenient. The person who took this almost impossible photograph should get a Pulitzer. No quantitative measurement for the real voltage, or current for that matter. https://donglec.com/blogs/journal/are-third-party-chargers-harmful-to-apple-devices https://donglec.com/blogs/journal/are-third-party-chargers-h...