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> it feels like you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus. This is very one-sid

> it feels like you don't necessarily realize that some people do need deep work, and prioritize your quick satisfaction to other's focus. This is very one-sided. If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours searching through the local intranet for some information, then that makes your team faster. There's a balance to be had, of course, but your team's overall delivery is what's important. > I view it as a type of interruption. It's not your view. Of course it's an interruption. That doesn't make it bad.

funcDropShadow 3y ago
Of course there is a balance needed. But spending once 3 hours to search something might increase familiarity with the resources the intranet provides. So the next question could be answered way faster. Or it could be the occasion to improve the local intranet with some missing cross reference or some comment.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  Or it might be 100% wasted time that could be bypassed with a 5 minute conversation across the room. =)
  - otteromkram 3y ago
    Or, via chat or a phone call. No physical presence required :-D
- nicoburns 3y ago
  > But spending once 3 hours to search something might increase familiarity with the resources the intranet provides. Assuming your company even has an intranet.
beeboobaa 3y ago
> If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours Past your training period you are responsible for your own productivity. Don't make it the problem of your peers.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  You are clearly not a team player. The goal is to make the team succeed, not to be individual rockstars.
  - beeboobaa 3y ago
    Sure, and if you can't keep up then you should reflect on that. Meetings and discussions are great. Constantly nagging your coworkers because you can't figure out how to do your job on your own is not.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      > Constantly nagging your coworkers because you can't figure out how to do your job on your own is not. This is the problem: you've invented this scenario. There is a gaping middle ground between what people are describing and your stereotype of what they "must really mean"?
      - danaris 3y ago
        I think the problem is that too many of us have experienced this scenario, and had it described much in the way that the OP of the thread did. Too many people are too un-self-aware to recognize that their "just a 5-minute question" is being asked because they have not internalized the knowledge, rather than because it's genuinely something that they haven't had an opportunity to learn—too un-self-aware to recognize that this situation is unnecessarily stressful and it's their fault.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        > Too many people are too un-self-aware to recognize that their "just a 5-minute question" is being asked because they have not internalized the knowledge, rather than because it's genuinely something that they haven't had an opportunity to learn—too un-self-aware to recognize that this situation is unnecessarily stressful and it's their fault. This is just assumptions though. Too many? Compared to what? Narrators are just as unreliable as anyone; some will be unreasonably opposed to any questions. Complaints aren't all 100% trustworthy. And complainants can also be un-self aware in that when they were more junior, or new, then they also asked questions. They just maybe had people answer them who were more happy to invest in them.
mariusor 3y ago
> If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours searching through the local intranet for some information, then that makes your team faster. I'll be blunt here. I have very little interest in how the team I'm part of performs in general. Trying to make one person feel guilty that someone else can't do independent study is very toxic in my opinion, and I usually remove myself from under management that approaches leadership like that. Asking questions should always be done, in my opinion, _after_ you tried to unblock yourself by RTFM-ing. If people feed you information every time you're stuck, it seldom sticks to your mind as well as going through the motions yourself.
- woooooo 3y ago
  I'm as frustrated as anyone with "let me Google that for you" style interruptions but you don't ship anything alone. You need a team.
- justinclift 3y ago
  > I have very little interest in how the team I'm part of performs in general In a lot of situations that would be considered fairly toxic itself. :(
  - mariusor 3y ago
    How so? The camaraderie that companies try to enforce on their low lever employees with this kind of manipulation is nothing but a ruse. Why do you think that a whole team of people should be responsible for the inability of some? I have empathy for individual people that start their careers and struggle, but I also believe that if you apply for a job, you should be qualified to do it independently.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      camaraderie in a team is a job requirement for me. without it i'll be out of there in no time. i simply do not want to work with people who can't be bothered to be nice and helpful to each other. i do not want to be just a cog in a machine that grinds out work without any consideration for the project as a whole. it is also needed to allow new team members to get onboarded faster. as a hiring manager i find your attitude unwelcome.
bitzun 3y ago
But it's not a dichotomy between 3 hours or instantaneous. It's a dichotomy between instantaneous and when someone has a break in flow to peek at messages, which IME is more like 15-30 minutes (and i think it's probably fair to ask people to peek around that frequently if they normally wouldn't)
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  Paul Graham would disagree.[1] [1] http://paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html http://paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html
- JAlexoid 3y ago
  There's a very clear benefit of asking someone for help, when you're blocked. WFH comes with a lot of issues, when it comes to a timely response from people. I had many of colleagues in the WfH world, that just ignored me for a month... The idea that all engineering is highly focused and non-social just feeds the rockstar developer culture. And most of us aren't even close to rockstar status. There is always a balance between collaborative discussions and focus time. I thought that we learned it 20 years ago, that devs should not hide away in cubicles?

funcDropShadow 3y ago

Of course there is a balance needed. But spending once 3 hours to search something might increase familiarity with the resources the intranet provides. So the next question could be answered way faster. Or it could be the occasion to improve the local intranet with some missing cross reference or some comment.

theshrike79 3y ago
Or it might be 100% wasted time that could be bypassed with a 5 minute conversation across the room. =)
- otteromkram 3y ago
  Or, via chat or a phone call. No physical presence required :-D
nicoburns 3y ago
> But spending once 3 hours to search something might increase familiarity with the resources the intranet provides. Assuming your company even has an intranet.

beeboobaa 3y ago

> If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours Past your training period you are responsible for your own productivity. Don't make it the problem of your peers.

theshrike79 3y ago
You are clearly not a team player. The goal is to make the team succeed, not to be individual rockstars.
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  Sure, and if you can't keep up then you should reflect on that. Meetings and discussions are great. Constantly nagging your coworkers because you can't figure out how to do your job on your own is not.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > Constantly nagging your coworkers because you can't figure out how to do your job on your own is not. This is the problem: you've invented this scenario. There is a gaping middle ground between what people are describing and your stereotype of what they "must really mean"?
    - danaris 3y ago
      I think the problem is that too many of us have experienced this scenario, and had it described much in the way that the OP of the thread did. Too many people are too un-self-aware to recognize that their "just a 5-minute question" is being asked because they have not internalized the knowledge, rather than because it's genuinely something that they haven't had an opportunity to learn—too un-self-aware to recognize that this situation is unnecessarily stressful and it's their fault.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        > Too many people are too un-self-aware to recognize that their "just a 5-minute question" is being asked because they have not internalized the knowledge, rather than because it's genuinely something that they haven't had an opportunity to learn—too un-self-aware to recognize that this situation is unnecessarily stressful and it's their fault. This is just assumptions though. Too many? Compared to what? Narrators are just as unreliable as anyone; some will be unreasonably opposed to any questions. Complaints aren't all 100% trustworthy. And complainants can also be un-self aware in that when they were more junior, or new, then they also asked questions. They just maybe had people answer them who were more happy to invest in them.

mariusor 3y ago

> If you can unblock someone now so they don't spend 3 hours searching through the local intranet for some information, then that makes your team faster. I'll be blunt here. I have very little interest in how the team I'm part of performs in general. Trying to make one person feel guilty that someone else can't do independent study is very toxic in my opinion, and I usually remove myself from under management that approaches leadership like that. Asking questions should always be done, in my opinion, _after_ you tried to unblock yourself by RTFM-ing. If people feed you information every time you're stuck, it seldom sticks to your mind as well as going through the motions yourself.

woooooo 3y ago
I'm as frustrated as anyone with "let me Google that for you" style interruptions but you don't ship anything alone. You need a team.
justinclift 3y ago
> I have very little interest in how the team I'm part of performs in general In a lot of situations that would be considered fairly toxic itself. :(
- mariusor 3y ago
  How so? The camaraderie that companies try to enforce on their low lever employees with this kind of manipulation is nothing but a ruse. Why do you think that a whole team of people should be responsible for the inability of some? I have empathy for individual people that start their careers and struggle, but I also believe that if you apply for a job, you should be qualified to do it independently.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    camaraderie in a team is a job requirement for me. without it i'll be out of there in no time. i simply do not want to work with people who can't be bothered to be nice and helpful to each other. i do not want to be just a cog in a machine that grinds out work without any consideration for the project as a whole. it is also needed to allow new team members to get onboarded faster. as a hiring manager i find your attitude unwelcome.

bitzun 3y ago

But it's not a dichotomy between 3 hours or instantaneous. It's a dichotomy between instantaneous and when someone has a break in flow to peek at messages, which IME is more like 15-30 minutes (and i think it's probably fair to ask people to peek around that frequently if they normally wouldn't)

pseudalopex 3y ago
Paul Graham would disagree.[1] [1] http://paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html http://paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html
JAlexoid 3y ago
There's a very clear benefit of asking someone for help, when you're blocked. WFH comes with a lot of issues, when it comes to a timely response from people. I had many of colleagues in the WfH world, that just ignored me for a month... The idea that all engineering is highly focused and non-social just feeds the rockstar developer culture. And most of us aren't even close to rockstar status. There is always a balance between collaborative discussions and focus time. I thought that we learned it 20 years ago, that devs should not hide away in cubicles?