5 ms·

Everybody thinks their question is simple and quick, then it takes 30 minutes of time at minimum. I dunno why you are getting so much push back, must be a bunch

by cevn 3y ago

Everybody thinks their question is simple and quick, then it takes 30 minutes of time at minimum. I dunno why you are getting so much push back, must be a bunch of managers. Developers need to be left alone.

robertlagrant 3y ago
The push back is because it's extreme and one-sided. If you have some information that unblocks a team member, or another part of the business, say to make a sale, yes you should be interrupted. Your salary comes from somewhere, and your delivery is as a team, not an individual.
- cevn 3y ago
  We all have access to the exact same information. Sure, for a first time on boarder, I'll point them the right way. But 90% of the time someone taps on my shoulder, they want me to think for them. You can do that by yourself. Just send an email.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > We all have access to the exact same information. We might have the same access, but rather than dig through 20 medical textbooks, I'll go ask a doctor. Access is a really poor way of thinking about things. > But 90% of the time someone taps on my shoulder, they want me to think for them. You can do that by yourself. Just send an email. Why send an email when they're thinking for themselves?
    - funcDropShadow 3y ago
      > Why send an email when they're thinking for themselves? Because, the act of writing down a question --- with the necessary details to state the question precisely --- is often enough to find the answer yourself. Unless it is simple matter of a missing fact. But that is rarely the case in my line of work.
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        I think assuming everyone's situation is the same as yours, or your imagined stereotype of what people must be like if they don't agree with you, constitutes a lot of the content that's being pushed back on. Some businesses have huge depths of technical content to understand that can't all the memorised in a training session. Nothing difficult can. Even knowing who to talk to about an issue is going to be found out via a question.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - cevn 3y ago
      If I am a doctor in this situation, then you can create a JIRA ticket and I will see it .. eventually. Do you have instant access to all of your doctors?
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        But why would you see it if we have access to the same information? That's the point you made that I'm disagreeing with. Are you now saying that yes, even though I and my doctor might have access to the same information, that doesn't mean I should never ask my doctor things?
        cevn 3y ago
        If we have the same access, we are both developers? You can ask things, just.. asynchronously. If it takes a long time for me to respond, you probably could have found the information yourself in that time.
    - awelxtr 3y ago
      You don't go to ask a doctor. You get an appointment. Here noone is against appointments, here people discuss the notion of going to ask a doctor in the middle of a surgery a "quick question".
    - danaris 3y ago
      Because an email allows me to field it when I am not working on high-focus tasks. It also 1) forces (or at least encourages) laying the whole thing out in a coherent order 2) leaves a record of both the question and the answer, so that the asker can refer back to it if they forget 3) leaves a record so that if the asker is asking obvious questions, or repeatedly asking the same questions, or failing to formulate their questions in a sane and coherent manner, there is documentation to take to their supervisor, not only to prove it, but to show exactly the shape of the problem, and have a possibility of getting them the kind of help they need
- funcDropShadow 3y ago
  Because, you bring up sales, I am assuming that is your area of expertise. If a big sale can be unblocked by asking some specific employee an important question now, do it. If that happens five times a day, those sales are neither big nor are these very specific questions. Developers are most productive when in deep working mode. A simple question like "What time is it?" can be answered in 5 s, but it may cost a developer 30 min when in deep working mode. Because of the lost focus. On the other hand, many questions (not onboarding questions) could be answered by the colleagues themselves, if they would spend a bit more time on them. Thereby, they would learn more than just by getting the answer.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > Because, you bring up sales, I am assuming that is your area of expertise I'm not in sales at all. Having an overview of the different bits of the business isn't a sales attribute. It's just an example of "what your job is" - which might range from weeks of uninterrupted detailed technical work at Microsoft Research, to presenting to clients, to running teams, to making technical decisions and getting agreement, to writing code. Thinking every engineer's job is "writing code" and anyone who thinks wider is wrong is what the pushback in this thread is all about.
    - funcDropShadow 3y ago
      > I'm not in sales at all. My fault. > Thinking every engineer's job is "writing code" and anyone who thinks wider is wrong is what the pushback in this thread is all about. Writing code is not the only activity of an engineer that requires focus and concentration. Most of my activities require that.
- alemanek 3y ago
  It really isn’t though. OP has been pretty clear. Need help? Send an email or make an appointment and he will respond with help. How is it your assumption that the team member asking the question can’t possibly be delayed 30-45min for them to be available. Seriously? Are they in an active shooter situation and need to phone a friend or something. Lives on the line?
networkchad 3y ago
[dead]

by cevn 3y ago

robertlagrant 3y ago

The push back is because it's extreme and one-sided. If you have some information that unblocks a team member, or another part of the business, say to make a sale, yes you should be interrupted. Your salary comes from somewhere, and your delivery is as a team, not an individual.

cevn 3y ago
We all have access to the exact same information. Sure, for a first time on boarder, I'll point them the right way. But 90% of the time someone taps on my shoulder, they want me to think for them. You can do that by yourself. Just send an email.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > We all have access to the exact same information. We might have the same access, but rather than dig through 20 medical textbooks, I'll go ask a doctor. Access is a really poor way of thinking about things. > But 90% of the time someone taps on my shoulder, they want me to think for them. You can do that by yourself. Just send an email. Why send an email when they're thinking for themselves?
  - funcDropShadow 3y ago
    > Why send an email when they're thinking for themselves? Because, the act of writing down a question --- with the necessary details to state the question precisely --- is often enough to find the answer yourself. Unless it is simple matter of a missing fact. But that is rarely the case in my line of work.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      I think assuming everyone's situation is the same as yours, or your imagined stereotype of what people must be like if they don't agree with you, constitutes a lot of the content that's being pushed back on. Some businesses have huge depths of technical content to understand that can't all the memorised in a training session. Nothing difficult can. Even knowing who to talk to about an issue is going to be found out via a question.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - cevn 3y ago
    If I am a doctor in this situation, then you can create a JIRA ticket and I will see it .. eventually. Do you have instant access to all of your doctors?
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      But why would you see it if we have access to the same information? That's the point you made that I'm disagreeing with. Are you now saying that yes, even though I and my doctor might have access to the same information, that doesn't mean I should never ask my doctor things?
      - cevn 3y ago
        If we have the same access, we are both developers? You can ask things, just.. asynchronously. If it takes a long time for me to respond, you probably could have found the information yourself in that time.
  - awelxtr 3y ago
    You don't go to ask a doctor. You get an appointment. Here noone is against appointments, here people discuss the notion of going to ask a doctor in the middle of a surgery a "quick question".
  - danaris 3y ago
    Because an email allows me to field it when I am not working on high-focus tasks. It also 1) forces (or at least encourages) laying the whole thing out in a coherent order 2) leaves a record of both the question and the answer, so that the asker can refer back to it if they forget 3) leaves a record so that if the asker is asking obvious questions, or repeatedly asking the same questions, or failing to formulate their questions in a sane and coherent manner, there is documentation to take to their supervisor, not only to prove it, but to show exactly the shape of the problem, and have a possibility of getting them the kind of help they need
funcDropShadow 3y ago
Because, you bring up sales, I am assuming that is your area of expertise. If a big sale can be unblocked by asking some specific employee an important question now, do it. If that happens five times a day, those sales are neither big nor are these very specific questions. Developers are most productive when in deep working mode. A simple question like "What time is it?" can be answered in 5 s, but it may cost a developer 30 min when in deep working mode. Because of the lost focus. On the other hand, many questions (not onboarding questions) could be answered by the colleagues themselves, if they would spend a bit more time on them. Thereby, they would learn more than just by getting the answer.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > Because, you bring up sales, I am assuming that is your area of expertise I'm not in sales at all. Having an overview of the different bits of the business isn't a sales attribute. It's just an example of "what your job is" - which might range from weeks of uninterrupted detailed technical work at Microsoft Research, to presenting to clients, to running teams, to making technical decisions and getting agreement, to writing code. Thinking every engineer's job is "writing code" and anyone who thinks wider is wrong is what the pushback in this thread is all about.
  - funcDropShadow 3y ago
    > I'm not in sales at all. My fault. > Thinking every engineer's job is "writing code" and anyone who thinks wider is wrong is what the pushback in this thread is all about. Writing code is not the only activity of an engineer that requires focus and concentration. Most of my activities require that.
alemanek 3y ago
It really isn’t though. OP has been pretty clear. Need help? Send an email or make an appointment and he will respond with help. How is it your assumption that the team member asking the question can’t possibly be delayed 30-45min for them to be available. Seriously? Are they in an active shooter situation and need to phone a friend or something. Lives on the line?

networkchad 3y ago

[dead]