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ABL is not that important if you don't mind babysitting the printer. But it's an amazing quality of life improvement otherwise. Especially if you're printing st

ABL is not that important if you don't mind babysitting the printer. But it's an amazing quality of life improvement otherwise. Especially if you're printing stuff that needs precision. Manually leveling an ender 3 was tolerable to me for about a month while learning 3d printing and figuring out if it was something I would be into long term, but over the course of a year I went from that, to trying various ABL sensors and bed replacements, to now a custom built Mercury One.1 with 3 point kinematic auto bed leveling, and it's such a night and day difference in terms of usability. It physically levels the bed and automatically determines the z offset, so I don't have to do anything when using different print surfaces and when operating at different temperatures/in an enclosure. Heat expansion is pretty noticeable (I've destroyed pei plates with the nozzle by calculating z offset when cold but attempting to print when hot), and while sticking your hand under the bed of a printer printing PLA is not that dangerous, with ABS the bed is at 110C, not at all worth the risk, so autoleveling is very helpful. It makes it so much easier to just submit a print job, forget about it and find it finished perfectly, without involving any finicky adhesives.

lvturner 3y ago
I'm with you, adding an auto bed leveler was the single biggest upgrade on my 3D printer, for the type and printing I do and the frequency I use, it's really just made it fire and forget (I'm sure I could improve it /even/ further) where as previously I felt I had to re-level after every print.
Baeocystin 3y ago
3D printing has a bifurcation in the hobby; some people enjoy it for the objects they can make, some people enjoy it for the printers themselves. I pass no judgement either way, just an observation. I saw the same thing in the photography world; some were gearheads, some couldn't care less, and were focused on the image. As for me personally, I spent many entertaining, delightful, maddening and frustrating years playing with a frankendelta of bodged parts, broken firmware and hacked wiring. Learned a ton, don't regret any of it. But the moment I got an X1C, the Rostock has been relegated to Spiral Vase mode only. And I can't help but note my actual printing volume has increased dramatically when the process became less of a babysit.
- dotnet00 3y ago
  Yeah, that I can agree with. However I'm very much in the "gearhead" camp :) That's why I went with a DIY design. Similarly learned a ton, lately I'm finishing up a multi-material unit, then I'll start again by rebuilding and modding the disassembled Ender 3 to gift to a relative who has a slight interest in DIY stuff.
rpmisms 3y ago
I print working firearms and firearm parts. I follow the bed levelling method detailed in GP, and I have never had a gun failure due to lack of precision, which is critical in firearms. I also do this with Nylon and TPU, zero issues. Sure, ABL is nice, but I'd rather use the budget on a proper hotend and direct drive.
- Mashimo 3y ago
  > ABL is nice, but I'd rather use the budget on a proper hotend and direct drive. I agree with you, 5 years ago. But now days even cheaper china designed hotends can be decent. And direct drive is de facto standart. ABL is cheap and convenient.
  - rpmisms 3y ago
    This is all true, but FOSSCAD world is a little different, and a good hotend makes much more difference than ABL. Microswiss is the minimum. I need perfect extrusion, not perfect alignment along a non-critical axis. For the hobbyist, you are correct.
    - Mashimo 3y ago
      Interesting. I recently saw a video where they used normal Nylon CF and PLA+ for the orca gun system. What makes FOSSCAD so different when it comes to hotend demand? I disagree about the hobbyist comment. You can be a hobbyist and try to print PEEK and ULTEM, or you can be commercial and print nothing but PLA. I would say someone who does it commercially wants to spend less time on bed leveling. the probe I use for ABL is Klicky PCB which cost 20 bucks. You can print it yourself and use a normal switch and magnets and probably get it for 5 bucks. I don't see why this is a either / or discussion. It's so cheap.
      - rpmisms 3y ago
        FOSSCAD is different because we're generally printing parts that function near the end of the filament's capabilities. When I'm printing a lower receiver, I need perfect temperature consistency, because uneven cooling will introduce internal tension to the part, reducing its overall strength slightly. That's not an issue for a coat hook, but it is an issue for a Glock. I also need absolutely perfect extrusion, because a layer shift or missed infill section is a huge deal, not just aesthetically like for a normal print. I'm not saying ABL is bad in any way, simply that I have higher priorities. I have an Ender with it, and it's nice to have for sure. It's just not what I'd prioritize. I'm using "hobbyist" as shorthand for "normal 3d printer user", i.e not printing things that can explode.
londons_explore 3y ago
I haven't levelled my bed in months or maybe years... Sure, it was a pain to level it the first time, but once it's level it should stay level unless you disassemble the printer.
- rcarmo 3y ago
  Thermal expansion (especially in long cycles) tends to warp beds.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Glass and aluminium do expand and might bend when heated, but they don't bend more when heated hundreds of times. Therefore as long as you calibrate it when hot, it should stay calibrated (unless you let the calibration screws vibrate+turn or something)..
    - rcarmo 3y ago
      I have a 10-year glass bed on my Prusa clone that would like a word with you :) (I replaced it with a garolite sheet, am very happy with that)
ravenstine 3y ago
Interesting. I don't think I've ever knowingly encountered heat expansion of the bed itself affecting the prints. I print on glass and only occasionally have to do anything about bed leveling. No need to pry or pull and mess up the leveling when all you have to do is just wait a few minutes for the print to cool and it pops right off. Never printed ABS on glass though, so I can't say if it works as well for that. Autoleveling would be cool, but I have very little interest in it because I haven't needed it and it seems like an added point of failure.

lvturner 3y ago

I'm with you, adding an auto bed leveler was the single biggest upgrade on my 3D printer, for the type and printing I do and the frequency I use, it's really just made it fire and forget (I'm sure I could improve it /even/ further) where as previously I felt I had to re-level after every print.

Baeocystin 3y ago

3D printing has a bifurcation in the hobby; some people enjoy it for the objects they can make, some people enjoy it for the printers themselves. I pass no judgement either way, just an observation. I saw the same thing in the photography world; some were gearheads, some couldn't care less, and were focused on the image. As for me personally, I spent many entertaining, delightful, maddening and frustrating years playing with a frankendelta of bodged parts, broken firmware and hacked wiring. Learned a ton, don't regret any of it. But the moment I got an X1C, the Rostock has been relegated to Spiral Vase mode only. And I can't help but note my actual printing volume has increased dramatically when the process became less of a babysit.

dotnet00 3y ago
Yeah, that I can agree with. However I'm very much in the "gearhead" camp :) That's why I went with a DIY design. Similarly learned a ton, lately I'm finishing up a multi-material unit, then I'll start again by rebuilding and modding the disassembled Ender 3 to gift to a relative who has a slight interest in DIY stuff.

rpmisms 3y ago

I print working firearms and firearm parts. I follow the bed levelling method detailed in GP, and I have never had a gun failure due to lack of precision, which is critical in firearms. I also do this with Nylon and TPU, zero issues. Sure, ABL is nice, but I'd rather use the budget on a proper hotend and direct drive.

Mashimo 3y ago
> ABL is nice, but I'd rather use the budget on a proper hotend and direct drive. I agree with you, 5 years ago. But now days even cheaper china designed hotends can be decent. And direct drive is de facto standart. ABL is cheap and convenient.
- rpmisms 3y ago
  This is all true, but FOSSCAD world is a little different, and a good hotend makes much more difference than ABL. Microswiss is the minimum. I need perfect extrusion, not perfect alignment along a non-critical axis. For the hobbyist, you are correct.
  - Mashimo 3y ago
    Interesting. I recently saw a video where they used normal Nylon CF and PLA+ for the orca gun system. What makes FOSSCAD so different when it comes to hotend demand? I disagree about the hobbyist comment. You can be a hobbyist and try to print PEEK and ULTEM, or you can be commercial and print nothing but PLA. I would say someone who does it commercially wants to spend less time on bed leveling. the probe I use for ABL is Klicky PCB which cost 20 bucks. You can print it yourself and use a normal switch and magnets and probably get it for 5 bucks. I don't see why this is a either / or discussion. It's so cheap.
    - rpmisms 3y ago
      FOSSCAD is different because we're generally printing parts that function near the end of the filament's capabilities. When I'm printing a lower receiver, I need perfect temperature consistency, because uneven cooling will introduce internal tension to the part, reducing its overall strength slightly. That's not an issue for a coat hook, but it is an issue for a Glock. I also need absolutely perfect extrusion, because a layer shift or missed infill section is a huge deal, not just aesthetically like for a normal print. I'm not saying ABL is bad in any way, simply that I have higher priorities. I have an Ender with it, and it's nice to have for sure. It's just not what I'd prioritize. I'm using "hobbyist" as shorthand for "normal 3d printer user", i.e not printing things that can explode.

londons_explore 3y ago

I haven't levelled my bed in months or maybe years... Sure, it was a pain to level it the first time, but once it's level it should stay level unless you disassemble the printer.

rcarmo 3y ago
Thermal expansion (especially in long cycles) tends to warp beds.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Glass and aluminium do expand and might bend when heated, but they don't bend more when heated hundreds of times. Therefore as long as you calibrate it when hot, it should stay calibrated (unless you let the calibration screws vibrate+turn or something)..
  - rcarmo 3y ago
    I have a 10-year glass bed on my Prusa clone that would like a word with you :) (I replaced it with a garolite sheet, am very happy with that)

ravenstine 3y ago

Interesting. I don't think I've ever knowingly encountered heat expansion of the bed itself affecting the prints. I print on glass and only occasionally have to do anything about bed leveling. No need to pry or pull and mess up the leveling when all you have to do is just wait a few minutes for the print to cool and it pops right off. Never printed ABS on glass though, so I can't say if it works as well for that. Autoleveling would be cool, but I have very little interest in it because I haven't needed it and it seems like an added point of failure.