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The laptop could come with a USB-C "master key" on the box, tied to that specific laptop. Keep that key at home, and all the anti-theft benefits continue to app

The laptop could come with a USB-C "master key" on the box, tied to that specific laptop. Keep that key at home, and all the anti-theft benefits continue to apply, while keeping the owner in control of their hardware.

LoganDark 3y ago
I believe some ASUS laptops come with a built-in security key called the "keystone" that slots into the chassis. It's visually similar to those security devices built into treadmills that will stop the machine if it gets yanked out (by someone falling or etc). It could probably be used like a master key.
- chrismorgan 3y ago
  The Kensington lock slot on the chassis is extremely common. My Surface Book didn’t have one, but every other laptop I’ve had has had one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Security_Slot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Security_Slot
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    It's a security key, as in a Hardware Security Module, it's not just a lock slot. Look up "asus keystone" and you can find images of it. https://www.mensxp.com/technology/games/55824-asus-rog-keystone.html https://www.mensxp.com/technology/games/55824-asus-rog-keyst... The first-party software supports using the key to unlock a hidden encrypted volume, as well as instantly locking the computer when the key is removed. I'm not 100% sure if it can be used to secure bootup.
    - c0pium 3y ago
      lol, no it’s not, it’s an NFC chip with an account ID on it. That allegedly encrypted hd is just a vhd stored in programdata that anyone can mount and read. It’s not a Kensington lock but it provides the same amount of data security as one. c:\programdata\asus\virtualdrive
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        > it’s an NFC chip with an account ID on it. wait, they made something that looks like an HSM and is marketed like an HSM, but actually it's just a glorified ID card? That's stupid
selcuka 3y ago
> The laptop could come with a USB-C "master key" on the box Or simply with a unique private key, printed inside a tamper proof envelope? You can at least backup the private key to somewhere safe, if you want. Many people will lose the key (that's ok, not worse than the current situation), but at least those who care won't.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  So both you and Apple would have access to that private key and you would be able to recover it from Apple if you lose it? Directly or the way it’s handled now. Cause otherwise it wouldn’t really work
  - selcuka 3y ago
    Apple can have their own, separate private key for convenience (so that you can reset your device using an iCloud account). Your private key is for when you forget your iCloud password (or the device is bricked, as in the article) and Tim Cook can't be bothered to step in.
    - hunter2_ 3y ago
      But if Apple believes that original proof of purchase (the receipt that the author presented to Apple in hopes that it would convince them to unlock the laptop) is insufficient (and let's assume the lack of cryptographic signing of said receipt isn't the problem; Apple can verify the receipt another way) because the original owner could've sold the laptop to a second owner and then stolen it back, then why would Apple think it's ok to accept "your private key" as proof that you're still the owner? You could've sold the laptop and stolen it back -- the exact hypothetical situation that prevents them from considering the original bill of sale -- and then used the key that you had possession (or knowledge) of the whole time! A secondhand buyer should demand the key if it's physical, but if it can be duplicated this breaks down.
      - selcuka 3y ago
        > why would Apple think it's ok to accept "your private key" as proof that you're still the owner? Isn't that the whole point of this argument? The buyer shouldn't need to convince Apple. My suggestion was to eliminate Apple's power to brick a device and then be the judge who decides whether you own the machine or not. The private key mechanism is a good way to deter theft, but Apple should not be policing it. The steal back is really an edge case that doesn't need to be covered by a technical solution.
c0pium 3y ago
Everyone who doesn’t throw that useless weird dongle out with the box will lose it immediately. This is not a technical problem and you cannot fix it with a technical solution.
- saghm 3y ago
  > Everyone who doesn’t throw that useless weird dongle out with the box will lose it immediately So they'd be no worse off than they are the way things currently work, except with the ability for the few who do care about this sort of thing having a better workaround than "try to email the CEO and pray that he somehow notices" > This is not a technical problem and you cannot fix it with a technical solution Funny, that's exactly how I see bricking a laptop to try to curtail thieves, only it actually does solve the problem, but only by creating a worse one
  - ffgjgf1 3y ago
    Is this the case though? From what I understood in the article: - Find My Device wasn’t enabled on the mac and it was stolen. - somebody reset it and tied it tot their account - then the same person passed it to another party and bricked it by reporting it stolen. - somehow the original owner managed to recover it Would the original owner been able to avoid all this has they actually enabled this security feature in the first place?
    - JoBrad 3y ago
      Yes, if they had enabled Find My.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    >> This is not a technical problem and you cannot fix it with a technical solution > Funny, that's exactly how I see bricking a laptop to try to curtail thieves People love to repeat slogans, regardless of whether those slogans actually apply to whatever it is they're talking about.
pjerem 3y ago
In fact, it could even just be a plastic "owner's card" like the one you get when you buy a new lock, that, presumably, you must have to order new keys. With some QR code and the device's camera, you don't need any new hardware.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  What happens when you lose it?
  - JoBrad 3y ago
    If it’s a fail safe, then losing it will impact very few people.

LoganDark 3y ago

I believe some ASUS laptops come with a built-in security key called the "keystone" that slots into the chassis. It's visually similar to those security devices built into treadmills that will stop the machine if it gets yanked out (by someone falling or etc). It could probably be used like a master key.

chrismorgan 3y ago
The Kensington lock slot on the chassis is extremely common. My Surface Book didn’t have one, but every other laptop I’ve had has had one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Security_Slot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Security_Slot
- LoganDark 3y ago
  It's a security key, as in a Hardware Security Module, it's not just a lock slot. Look up "asus keystone" and you can find images of it. https://www.mensxp.com/technology/games/55824-asus-rog-keystone.html https://www.mensxp.com/technology/games/55824-asus-rog-keyst... The first-party software supports using the key to unlock a hidden encrypted volume, as well as instantly locking the computer when the key is removed. I'm not 100% sure if it can be used to secure bootup.
  - c0pium 3y ago
    lol, no it’s not, it’s an NFC chip with an account ID on it. That allegedly encrypted hd is just a vhd stored in programdata that anyone can mount and read. It’s not a Kensington lock but it provides the same amount of data security as one. c:\programdata\asus\virtualdrive
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      > it’s an NFC chip with an account ID on it. wait, they made something that looks like an HSM and is marketed like an HSM, but actually it's just a glorified ID card? That's stupid

selcuka 3y ago

> The laptop could come with a USB-C "master key" on the box Or simply with a unique private key, printed inside a tamper proof envelope? You can at least backup the private key to somewhere safe, if you want. Many people will lose the key (that's ok, not worse than the current situation), but at least those who care won't.

ffgjgf1 3y ago
So both you and Apple would have access to that private key and you would be able to recover it from Apple if you lose it? Directly or the way it’s handled now. Cause otherwise it wouldn’t really work
- selcuka 3y ago
  Apple can have their own, separate private key for convenience (so that you can reset your device using an iCloud account). Your private key is for when you forget your iCloud password (or the device is bricked, as in the article) and Tim Cook can't be bothered to step in.
  - hunter2_ 3y ago
    But if Apple believes that original proof of purchase (the receipt that the author presented to Apple in hopes that it would convince them to unlock the laptop) is insufficient (and let's assume the lack of cryptographic signing of said receipt isn't the problem; Apple can verify the receipt another way) because the original owner could've sold the laptop to a second owner and then stolen it back, then why would Apple think it's ok to accept "your private key" as proof that you're still the owner? You could've sold the laptop and stolen it back -- the exact hypothetical situation that prevents them from considering the original bill of sale -- and then used the key that you had possession (or knowledge) of the whole time! A secondhand buyer should demand the key if it's physical, but if it can be duplicated this breaks down.
    - selcuka 3y ago
      > why would Apple think it's ok to accept "your private key" as proof that you're still the owner? Isn't that the whole point of this argument? The buyer shouldn't need to convince Apple. My suggestion was to eliminate Apple's power to brick a device and then be the judge who decides whether you own the machine or not. The private key mechanism is a good way to deter theft, but Apple should not be policing it. The steal back is really an edge case that doesn't need to be covered by a technical solution.

c0pium 3y ago

Everyone who doesn’t throw that useless weird dongle out with the box will lose it immediately. This is not a technical problem and you cannot fix it with a technical solution.

saghm 3y ago
> Everyone who doesn’t throw that useless weird dongle out with the box will lose it immediately So they'd be no worse off than they are the way things currently work, except with the ability for the few who do care about this sort of thing having a better workaround than "try to email the CEO and pray that he somehow notices" > This is not a technical problem and you cannot fix it with a technical solution Funny, that's exactly how I see bricking a laptop to try to curtail thieves, only it actually does solve the problem, but only by creating a worse one
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  Is this the case though? From what I understood in the article: - Find My Device wasn’t enabled on the mac and it was stolen. - somebody reset it and tied it tot their account - then the same person passed it to another party and bricked it by reporting it stolen. - somehow the original owner managed to recover it Would the original owner been able to avoid all this has they actually enabled this security feature in the first place?
  - JoBrad 3y ago
    Yes, if they had enabled Find My.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  >> This is not a technical problem and you cannot fix it with a technical solution > Funny, that's exactly how I see bricking a laptop to try to curtail thieves People love to repeat slogans, regardless of whether those slogans actually apply to whatever it is they're talking about.

pjerem 3y ago

In fact, it could even just be a plastic "owner's card" like the one you get when you buy a new lock, that, presumably, you must have to order new keys. With some QR code and the device's camera, you don't need any new hardware.

ffgjgf1 3y ago
What happens when you lose it?
- JoBrad 3y ago
  If it’s a fail safe, then losing it will impact very few people.