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> Buy a laptop whose hardware is actually open. Nice idea in theory, not really applicable in the real world. Not on the technical side because it doesn't exis

> Buy a laptop whose hardware is actually open. Nice idea in theory, not really applicable in the real world. Not on the technical side because it doesn't exist (you have no access go the Intel Boot ROM on the CPU, and not to modern AGESA to start with something fundamental, but also no access to AMD or NV GPU specs, they are about as closed as they can get). On the market and people side, there just isn't enough of a market for it. The closest you might get is Framework where you get modules (but no open firmwares and things like information for all registers on all chips). Most people don't buy a 'collection of components' to then 'install firmware, a bootloader, an operating system and applications'. That market doesn't exist. Instead, they have some sort of preconceived notion about an appliance they want, and they really aren't interested in the technical details. It just needs to work, preferable as soon as you take it out of the box without having to do special things to it. People might be persuaded to care about ecological impact, or long-term cost, or maybe even ROI when buying a more expensive device vs. a cheaper device (if applicable). But technical details will never win, it never has. Not with laptops, not with phones, not with video cassettes.

flashback2199 3y ago
[flagged]
- oneplane 3y ago
  I am not saying you are the only person who used Boot Camp. And I am also not saying this can only apply to x86_64. And if you use your own definition of 'open', just buy some random Dell or Lenovo laptop and live a happy life. Apple's market and your market doesn't have to intersect. As for what market doesn't exist: the one with the more globally used definition of 'open'. There is an insignificant amount of users that would really like it (including me), and unless you count the OLPC, there is no market, because even if we assume a demand, there is no supply because it's not feasible. Even if you'd just take NDA'ed technology as an example.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- edude03 3y ago
  > Open to me means I can install any x86-64 desktop OS on it But you claim you would have bought an arm64 machine if it could run boot camp? Between that and wanting CUDA it sounds like you would have never bought a Mac after 2012 (the last year you could get an nvidia GPU)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
jojobas 3y ago
That's light-years ahead of "the vendor has remote access to my device all the time while I might or might not access it even having it in my hands, depending on how the vendor feels about it". Apple is in a league of its own with respect to selling you hardware and fundamentally retaining ownership of that hardware.
- oneplane 3y ago
  Is it? CompuTrace and Intel AT would like to have a word with you. As do Dell, Samsung, Sony and Lenovo. Sure, their entry level consumer goods tend to have that mostly implemented in software, but even base tier business products have this. As does every Windows 10 version from Pro and up. Your broadening of the scope really doesn't help. We could make it more interesting. Put an AMD EPYC CPU you own into a Dell server, then take it out and put it in a different server. CPU no longer works, because it's now cryptographically tied to Dell. AMD won't help you, and neither will Dell. And it's not just AMD and Dell that implement this. Are they at fault? Not really, you should have RTFM. But there is nobody that can 'fix' this for you. Maybe that's not interesting to you, so we could move on to LTE infrastructure, or car radios or HAM radios. Or maybe that's no fun and you'd rather talk about the CI interface on your TV. Or maybe you don't have that and then we can find something else if need be. Or, we could scope it back to what it is about: Activation Lock that the owner of the device can enable and disable with their credentials, and it should not be something that someone else can bypass, otherwise the feature is worthless.
  - jojobas 3y ago
    Computrace is just another rootkit that you might or might not want to install on your hardware. Intel AT has been discontinued since 2015, good riddance. Only a handful of laptop vendors ever had the chutzpah to have the rootkit preinstalled on sale, and only Apple currently has the preinstalled rootkit in firmware. >Are they at fault? Yes, they are at fault of being customer-hostile. >should not be something that someone else can bypass That would make sense if the credential was on a piece of paper sold with the laptop, rather than in the vendor's database somewhere. Still any laptop is fundamentally open to an evil maid attack, so anything past encrypting your hard drive is mostly crap.

flashback2199 3y ago

[flagged]

oneplane 3y ago
I am not saying you are the only person who used Boot Camp. And I am also not saying this can only apply to x86_64. And if you use your own definition of 'open', just buy some random Dell or Lenovo laptop and live a happy life. Apple's market and your market doesn't have to intersect. As for what market doesn't exist: the one with the more globally used definition of 'open'. There is an insignificant amount of users that would really like it (including me), and unless you count the OLPC, there is no market, because even if we assume a demand, there is no supply because it's not feasible. Even if you'd just take NDA'ed technology as an example.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
edude03 3y ago
> Open to me means I can install any x86-64 desktop OS on it But you claim you would have bought an arm64 machine if it could run boot camp? Between that and wanting CUDA it sounds like you would have never bought a Mac after 2012 (the last year you could get an nvidia GPU)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

jojobas 3y ago

That's light-years ahead of "the vendor has remote access to my device all the time while I might or might not access it even having it in my hands, depending on how the vendor feels about it". Apple is in a league of its own with respect to selling you hardware and fundamentally retaining ownership of that hardware.

oneplane 3y ago
Is it? CompuTrace and Intel AT would like to have a word with you. As do Dell, Samsung, Sony and Lenovo. Sure, their entry level consumer goods tend to have that mostly implemented in software, but even base tier business products have this. As does every Windows 10 version from Pro and up. Your broadening of the scope really doesn't help. We could make it more interesting. Put an AMD EPYC CPU you own into a Dell server, then take it out and put it in a different server. CPU no longer works, because it's now cryptographically tied to Dell. AMD won't help you, and neither will Dell. And it's not just AMD and Dell that implement this. Are they at fault? Not really, you should have RTFM. But there is nobody that can 'fix' this for you. Maybe that's not interesting to you, so we could move on to LTE infrastructure, or car radios or HAM radios. Or maybe that's no fun and you'd rather talk about the CI interface on your TV. Or maybe you don't have that and then we can find something else if need be. Or, we could scope it back to what it is about: Activation Lock that the owner of the device can enable and disable with their credentials, and it should not be something that someone else can bypass, otherwise the feature is worthless.
- jojobas 3y ago
  Computrace is just another rootkit that you might or might not want to install on your hardware. Intel AT has been discontinued since 2015, good riddance. Only a handful of laptop vendors ever had the chutzpah to have the rootkit preinstalled on sale, and only Apple currently has the preinstalled rootkit in firmware. >Are they at fault? Yes, they are at fault of being customer-hostile. >should not be something that someone else can bypass That would make sense if the credential was on a piece of paper sold with the laptop, rather than in the vendor's database somewhere. Still any laptop is fundamentally open to an evil maid attack, so anything past encrypting your hard drive is mostly crap.