4 ms·

the same way that Apple's "rounded corners for smartphones" was a patent.

areoform 3y ago
A design patent, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent, is different from a patent granted for an invention.
- nox100 3y ago
  Seems similar to me. Lots of rounded rect products existed before iPhone. Like say, cassette tapes, vhs tapes, 8track tapes, bars of soap, cans of spam, license plates, sardine cans, etc...
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > Lots of rounded rect products existed before iPhone. The design patent is very specific. It isn't about rounded corners in general. Patent (incl. prior art): http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1701443/USD670286S1.pdf http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1701443/USD670286S1.pdf How to think about it: https://www.theverge.com/2012/11/7/3614506/apple-patents-rectangle-with-rounded-corners https://www.theverge.com/2012/11/7/3614506/apple-patents-rec...
    - deaddodo 3y ago
      Did you read the patent or the article you linked? The patent is very specifically regarding the highlighted region of the patent application, which is (strictly speaking) just a general rounded corner device. Although an IP case would probably hinge on it being a full screen touch device, as well; so "rounded corner phones, tablets, touch interfaces, etc", if you want to be really charitable to the patent + Apple.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    Design patents cover, for example, the famous Coca-Cola bottle. Everyone can make bottles, they just can't use that exact shape. What Samsung did that forced Apple to enforce their design patent was copy the design EXACTLY down to the _exact_ radius of the corners. All they had to do was not 100% copy Apple's design, just by changing the ratios a bit and they would've been unaffected.
    - fennecfoxy 3y ago
      Form follows function, do we really expect large corporations to be able to enforce a patent like this given that it _doesn't really matter_? Apple didn't come up with anything new or incredible, it lends nothing to their brand or to the function of the device. There's no negative impact on Apple if their competition uses the same rounded corner radius. Saying so otherwise is just playing into the Apple vs Samsung vs Everyone else team based Robert measuring contest where everyone waves the flag of their favourite corporation that they love so much.
      - theshrike79 3y ago
        Now do the same logic for Coca-Cola. If I just invent Foxy Cola and use the exact same style of bottle and font, that should be just OK? Branding doesn't matter. I should also be able to copy any car's design exactly and slap my own brand on it, no repercussions whatsoever right?
  - jb1991 3y ago
    [flagged]
- fennecfoxy 3y ago
  That's just being pedantic though; they were pointing out the logic behind a patent of any kind for such a simple thing/feature is ridiculous. And it is. But money talks.
Khaine 3y ago
That was a design patent[1], which are different from normal patents. A design patent is a form of legal protection granted to the ornamental design of an article of manufacture. Design patents are a type of industrial design right. Whether you think it is a valid design patent or not is a different question. There is no doubt that the outline of the iPhone was iconic, and Apple was trying to protect that, and Samsung was trying to ape it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent
hedora 3y ago
Though that was a design patent, they also got a normal patent for the pythagorean formula (they didn’t invent pinch zoom, so they patented computing the distance between two fingers from two x,y coordinates).
- Retric 3y ago
  FYI: Apple’s pinch to zoom lets you rotate and drag not just zoom. This kind of subtle differences matter quite a bit from a UI perspective. You could have a punch to zoom system where a pinching motion always resulted in fixed changes to zoom levels. You could describe both implementations as “pint to zoom” but one is a lot more user friendly than the other.
  - cma 3y ago
    Didn't the Microsoft surface table project that predated apple multitouch already show rotation?
    - Toutouxc 3y ago
      The original Surface was unveiled a few months (May 30, 2007) after the iPhone (January 9, 2007). Not sure who implemented the idea first in the lab, but probably neither of them.
      - Retric 3y ago
        Yea, Apple got most of this by buying a company that started working on this stuff in 1999. You can argue about the patents, but in this case it was beneficial for a small innovative company. Also, the original idea for pinch zooming dates back to 1985, but I have no idea what that UI was actually like.
      - cma 3y ago
        This MS patent predated Apple's earliest, had most of multitouch but I think rotation was a fixed gesture by a set number of degrees https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2013117985A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2013117985A/en
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

A design patent, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent, is different from a patent granted for an invention.

nox100 3y ago
Seems similar to me. Lots of rounded rect products existed before iPhone. Like say, cassette tapes, vhs tapes, 8track tapes, bars of soap, cans of spam, license plates, sardine cans, etc...
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > Lots of rounded rect products existed before iPhone. The design patent is very specific. It isn't about rounded corners in general. Patent (incl. prior art): http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1701443/USD670286S1.pdf http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1701443/USD670286S1.pdf How to think about it: https://www.theverge.com/2012/11/7/3614506/apple-patents-rectangle-with-rounded-corners https://www.theverge.com/2012/11/7/3614506/apple-patents-rec...
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    Did you read the patent or the article you linked? The patent is very specifically regarding the highlighted region of the patent application, which is (strictly speaking) just a general rounded corner device. Although an IP case would probably hinge on it being a full screen touch device, as well; so "rounded corner phones, tablets, touch interfaces, etc", if you want to be really charitable to the patent + Apple.
- theshrike79 3y ago
  Design patents cover, for example, the famous Coca-Cola bottle. Everyone can make bottles, they just can't use that exact shape. What Samsung did that forced Apple to enforce their design patent was copy the design EXACTLY down to the _exact_ radius of the corners. All they had to do was not 100% copy Apple's design, just by changing the ratios a bit and they would've been unaffected.
  - fennecfoxy 3y ago
    Form follows function, do we really expect large corporations to be able to enforce a patent like this given that it _doesn't really matter_? Apple didn't come up with anything new or incredible, it lends nothing to their brand or to the function of the device. There's no negative impact on Apple if their competition uses the same rounded corner radius. Saying so otherwise is just playing into the Apple vs Samsung vs Everyone else team based Robert measuring contest where everyone waves the flag of their favourite corporation that they love so much.
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      Now do the same logic for Coca-Cola. If I just invent Foxy Cola and use the exact same style of bottle and font, that should be just OK? Branding doesn't matter. I should also be able to copy any car's design exactly and slap my own brand on it, no repercussions whatsoever right?
- jb1991 3y ago
  [flagged]
fennecfoxy 3y ago
That's just being pedantic though; they were pointing out the logic behind a patent of any kind for such a simple thing/feature is ridiculous. And it is. But money talks.

Khaine 3y ago

That was a design patent[1], which are different from normal patents. A design patent is a form of legal protection granted to the ornamental design of an article of manufacture. Design patents are a type of industrial design right. Whether you think it is a valid design patent or not is a different question. There is no doubt that the outline of the iPhone was iconic, and Apple was trying to protect that, and Samsung was trying to ape it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_patent

hedora 3y ago

Though that was a design patent, they also got a normal patent for the pythagorean formula (they didn’t invent pinch zoom, so they patented computing the distance between two fingers from two x,y coordinates).

Retric 3y ago
FYI: Apple’s pinch to zoom lets you rotate and drag not just zoom. This kind of subtle differences matter quite a bit from a UI perspective. You could have a punch to zoom system where a pinching motion always resulted in fixed changes to zoom levels. You could describe both implementations as “pint to zoom” but one is a lot more user friendly than the other.
- cma 3y ago
  Didn't the Microsoft surface table project that predated apple multitouch already show rotation?
  - Toutouxc 3y ago
    The original Surface was unveiled a few months (May 30, 2007) after the iPhone (January 9, 2007). Not sure who implemented the idea first in the lab, but probably neither of them.
    - Retric 3y ago
      Yea, Apple got most of this by buying a company that started working on this stuff in 1999. You can argue about the patents, but in this case it was beneficial for a small innovative company. Also, the original idea for pinch zooming dates back to 1985, but I have no idea what that UI was actually like.
    - cma 3y ago
      This MS patent predated Apple's earliest, had most of multitouch but I think rotation was a fixed gesture by a set number of degrees https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2013117985A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/JP2013117985A/en

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]