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The referenced PDF isn't loading for me, but the year-over-year chart from the Reason article is extremely suspicious. In 1954, at the height of Jim Crow, only

The referenced PDF isn't loading for me, but the year-over-year chart from the Reason article is extremely suspicious. In 1954, at the height of Jim Crow, only 13% of Americans self-censored? Or were the only people surveyed middle-aged white men?

SenAnder 3y ago
I don't know why you're singling out the middle-aged or men, but in the 1950s the US was in fact 87.5% non-Hispanic White [1], so all other groups accounted for only 12.5%. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...
hindsightbias 3y ago
“According to the 1950 Census, the population of the United States was 150,697,361. Of this total, 15,042,286, or 10 percent, identified as Black or African American alone.” I guess Reason would see it as a period of maximum freedom.
- refurb 3y ago
  Intellectually lazy comment and cheap smear that doesn't really contribute much to the conversation. Reason certainly doesn’t support racism or not giving full civil rights to blacks. And if you RTFA, you’d see 25% of liberals agree they have to self-censor so clearly it’s not just the right who thinks this is a problem.
  - TheCoelacanth 3y ago
    They don't support overt racism, but they do have an ideological blindspot for any racism that might require government action to resolve. They are biased towards an individualist, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" interpretation of racism. As long as there isn't overt discrimination, any racial discrepancy is assumed to be the result of choices or inate capabilities differing between individuals of different races. They are heavily biased against admitting to the existence of any systematic racism.
    - refurb 3y ago
      It’s sounds like their bias is “they don’t agree with me”. That’s not a bias, that’s approaching a problem differently. Like is said, actually critique their ideas, don’t just say “oh, they’re just stupid”. That’s just intellectually lazy.
- cratermoon 3y ago
  I'm immediately curious about how bad the undercount[1] was in 1950. At the height of Jim Crow, how many people avoided self-identifying Black or African American for obvious reasons?[2] 1. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2023/10/understanding-undercounted-populations.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2023/... 2. https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/jim-crow-era-discrimination-violence-black-men-passed-white https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/jim-crow-er...
  - SenAnder 3y ago
    Dismantling Jim Crow does not seem to have affected their numbers much - the census found Blacks to be 10% of all Americans in 1950, and 12.4% in 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...
    - cratermoon 3y ago
      You'd almost think that identifying as Black in the US still entails significant risks and disadvantages.
      - SenAnder 3y ago
        So it is your claim that Blacks still lie about their race on the census, in significant numbers, because they are afraid of... what, exactly? Except in rare cases, race is obvious on sight, so I don't see what they would gain by giving a different answer on the census. Of course you presumably have a good source backing up your claim that Blacks are afraid to identify their race on the census, and trustworthy alternate statistics counting the racial makeup of the US?
coldbrewed 3y ago
It's a good time to point out that the Reason Foundation is a libertarian think tank funded by the Koch Foundation.
- refurb 3y ago
  Ok? But what do you think about the points being made? Or do you just dismiss all ideas and comments by people who don’t align to your political views?
- SamPatt 3y ago
  It's a good time to point out that Reason didn't publish the study, they simply referenced it in a blog post. Who did publish it? Here's one of the authors: >Gibson has published well over 100 refereed articles and chapters, in a wide range of national and international social-scientific journals, including all of the leading political science journals. He has also published eight books, including the award-winning Overcoming Apartheid: Can Truth Reconcile a Divided Nation? In 2009, Cambridge University Press published his Overcoming Historical Injustices: Land Reconciliation in South Africa. His three South African books – Overcoming Apartheid, Overcoming Historical Injustices, and Overcoming Intolerance in South Africa (co-authored with Amanda Gouws in 2004) – trace the evolution of South Africa’s democracy in the post-apartheid era, and have become known as Gibson’s “overcoming trilogy.” His Citizens, Courts, and Confirmations: Positivity Theory and the Judgments of the American People (co-authored with Gregory A. Caldeira) was published in 2009 by Princeton University Press.

SenAnder 3y ago

I don't know why you're singling out the middle-aged or men, but in the 1950s the US was in fact 87.5% non-Hispanic White [1], so all other groups accounted for only 12.5%. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...

hindsightbias 3y ago

“According to the 1950 Census, the population of the United States was 150,697,361. Of this total, 15,042,286, or 10 percent, identified as Black or African American alone.” I guess Reason would see it as a period of maximum freedom.

refurb 3y ago
Intellectually lazy comment and cheap smear that doesn't really contribute much to the conversation. Reason certainly doesn’t support racism or not giving full civil rights to blacks. And if you RTFA, you’d see 25% of liberals agree they have to self-censor so clearly it’s not just the right who thinks this is a problem.
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
  They don't support overt racism, but they do have an ideological blindspot for any racism that might require government action to resolve. They are biased towards an individualist, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" interpretation of racism. As long as there isn't overt discrimination, any racial discrepancy is assumed to be the result of choices or inate capabilities differing between individuals of different races. They are heavily biased against admitting to the existence of any systematic racism.
  - refurb 3y ago
    It’s sounds like their bias is “they don’t agree with me”. That’s not a bias, that’s approaching a problem differently. Like is said, actually critique their ideas, don’t just say “oh, they’re just stupid”. That’s just intellectually lazy.
cratermoon 3y ago
I'm immediately curious about how bad the undercount[1] was in 1950. At the height of Jim Crow, how many people avoided self-identifying Black or African American for obvious reasons?[2] 1. https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2023/10/understanding-undercounted-populations.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/blogs/random-samplings/2023/... 2. https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/jim-crow-era-discrimination-violence-black-men-passed-white https://insight.kellogg.northwestern.edu/article/jim-crow-er...
- SenAnder 3y ago
  Dismantling Jim Crow does not seem to have affected their numbers much - the census found Blacks to be 10% of all Americans in 1950, and 12.4% in 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_d...
  - cratermoon 3y ago
    You'd almost think that identifying as Black in the US still entails significant risks and disadvantages.
    - SenAnder 3y ago
      So it is your claim that Blacks still lie about their race on the census, in significant numbers, because they are afraid of... what, exactly? Except in rare cases, race is obvious on sight, so I don't see what they would gain by giving a different answer on the census. Of course you presumably have a good source backing up your claim that Blacks are afraid to identify their race on the census, and trustworthy alternate statistics counting the racial makeup of the US?

coldbrewed 3y ago

It's a good time to point out that the Reason Foundation is a libertarian think tank funded by the Koch Foundation.

refurb 3y ago
Ok? But what do you think about the points being made? Or do you just dismiss all ideas and comments by people who don’t align to your political views?
SamPatt 3y ago
It's a good time to point out that Reason didn't publish the study, they simply referenced it in a blog post. Who did publish it? Here's one of the authors: >Gibson has published well over 100 refereed articles and chapters, in a wide range of national and international social-scientific journals, including all of the leading political science journals. He has also published eight books, including the award-winning Overcoming Apartheid: Can Truth Reconcile a Divided Nation? In 2009, Cambridge University Press published his Overcoming Historical Injustices: Land Reconciliation in South Africa. His three South African books – Overcoming Apartheid, Overcoming Historical Injustices, and Overcoming Intolerance in South Africa (co-authored with Amanda Gouws in 2004) – trace the evolution of South Africa’s democracy in the post-apartheid era, and have become known as Gibson’s “overcoming trilogy.” His Citizens, Courts, and Confirmations: Positivity Theory and the Judgments of the American People (co-authored with Gregory A. Caldeira) was published in 2009 by Princeton University Press.