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I think the transition is jarring for many people and while ultimately I think physical buttons are often better, I am the type that will gladly accept a little

I think the transition is jarring for many people and while ultimately I think physical buttons are often better, I am the type that will gladly accept a little degradation in favor of progress and minimalism. I also think there's an extremely vocal minority that feels like no-buttons is backwards progress. Note, this is not an excuse or justification for touchscreen-only interfaces, but my personal feelings towards the matter. I have two Teslas and I have never found the touchscreen to be a problem when the "automatic" setting is GOOD. For example, I almost never touch the AC. I set it to the temperature I like and it keeps me comfortable during the entire ride. However, when things like the automatic windshield wipers are bad (and they constantly fluctuate between disastrous and good enough between software updates), I get really frustrated because I have to tinker with the bullshit screen too much. Personally, I think the end game is minimalist physical buttons (some multipurpose) + software that is actually good enough to not interact with the touchscreen very often. Most companies that aren't Tesla really struggle on the latter portion.4 After having these 2 cars for a couple of years, I find most cars extremely cluttered and almost claustrophobic. I really like how clean and simple the Tesla interior is. I hope we don't overcorrect back into the 2010s and even 80s style of "put a button right in front for EVERYTHING." But I do think there's a ton of room for healthy middle ground.

tremon 3y ago
So your argument is basically, "touchscreens are OK as long as I don't have to actually use them"? And I don't get your argument about degradation in favour of progress -- progress towards what, exactly?
- leetharris 3y ago
  Yes. When I am charging, or not moving, I GREATLY prefer the touchscreen over hundreds of physical buttons scattered all over the car. The minimalism is appreciated. Less moving parts to break, less clutter, and everything is extremely centralized. When I am driving 85mph obviously I don't want to have to look over at a screen to adjust windshield wiper settings. One day, ideally most of this stuff is handled automatically or through a simple interface like voice. Stuff like window controls should always exist, but things like windshield wipers or speed should ideally be automated one day.
jjav 3y ago
> accept a little degradation in favor of progress What does this mean? Progress means making it better, degradation means making it worse. It can't be both. Too many industries seem to confuse "new" with "better". New just means it is a recent change, it might be better or much worse. New does not make something better. Better is better. Sometimes what is better is how it used to be.
- leetharris 3y ago
  I mean when two concepts are at war and are sometimes incompatible. For example, I am a PC gamer. I think mouse / keyboard is the best way to play many types of games. But it impractical to have a M/KB on a phone. So when I play a mobile game I wish I had a M/KB, but I am OK with sacrificing it because I have a portable form factor that was previously not possible. The new Volvo CX30, for example, put a lot of very simple buttons in the center so they wouldn't need to manufacture a left side driver and right side driver model with completely different layouts. It's likely not as intuitive, but the reduction in manufacturing costs allows them to deliver EVs for cheaper. This is the kind of idea I was trying to convey, but I admit it was confusing.
  - philote 3y ago
    Surprisingly nobody else has mentioned having physical buttons on a phone. But IMO a keyboard is absolutely practical for a phone. One of the first smartphones I bought had a slide-out keyboard. It's nice to be able to tell when you hit a button and that you're hitting the right one. My fat fingers can't handle on-screen keyboards well, and swiping words never works as well as I hope. So I end up frustrated and trying to fix my text constantly.
dzhiurgis 3y ago
I agree Tesla's touchscreen is perfect. I would love to disable few things in UI (i.e. some minimalistic mode with speedo only) but it's fine. What I do hate with climate is the stupid vents. I know many people hate when wind blows to their face, but I love it and it's impossible to get it right in mine. Even if you dial it down to be barely acceptable it seems to reset after each drive.
glimshe 3y ago
"New" isn't the same as "progress". Touchscreen-only interfaces are a degradation in favor of degradation.
- leetharris 3y ago
  I think you are intentionally ignoring the benefits in favor of your point. Controls are centralized, I have everything in one place which I greatly prefer. There are far less physical buttons that can break or wear out. Manufacturing is much simpler. Visually it's far less cluttered. And no cars are going "touchscreen only." Even Tesla with its aggressive move towards less parts still has controls for windows, hazards, lights, etc.
JohnFen 3y ago
> I am the type that will gladly accept a little degradation in favor of progress and minimalism. Is it really progress if it's a degradation? And what's so awesome about minimalism that it's worth a worse UI? Just trying to understand the cost/benefit analysis here.
- leetharris 3y ago
  I'll give you an example of something that I think is progress and some may disagree with me. For vent control on a Tesla, you have to pull up a visualization and "drag" the airflow to where you want it to go. Kinda silly compared to just moving your vent like in the old days. But when I use it on that screen, I can adjust airflow for ALL of my passengers from one spot. I can change the airflow for multiple areas of the car, I can change heated/cooled seats, I can split the air, I can turn on biohazard mode, etc. To contrast this, on my previous car, the physical "heated seats" button was in a different place for every single seat. So if my wife or kid left theirs on, it stayed on unless I reach across the car to turn it off or get out and go into the backseat. I get that this is an extremely minor example, but I do think a combination of good centralized physical buttons and a well made UI can be a good combo. Another small simple example I'm thinking of off the top of my head is sound balance. On my previous car to change fade/balance to avoid waking small children on a road trip, it was a physical button click and scrolling through menus to scroll an arbitrary number for left/right, then backing out, then doing the same for an arbitrary number for back/front. In a Tesla, I just pull up the visualization and click one time in one spot for exactly where I want the sound to be centered. These little things add up and I think eventually someone will nail it.

tremon 3y ago

So your argument is basically, "touchscreens are OK as long as I don't have to actually use them"? And I don't get your argument about degradation in favour of progress -- progress towards what, exactly?

leetharris 3y ago
Yes. When I am charging, or not moving, I GREATLY prefer the touchscreen over hundreds of physical buttons scattered all over the car. The minimalism is appreciated. Less moving parts to break, less clutter, and everything is extremely centralized. When I am driving 85mph obviously I don't want to have to look over at a screen to adjust windshield wiper settings. One day, ideally most of this stuff is handled automatically or through a simple interface like voice. Stuff like window controls should always exist, but things like windshield wipers or speed should ideally be automated one day.

jjav 3y ago

> accept a little degradation in favor of progress What does this mean? Progress means making it better, degradation means making it worse. It can't be both. Too many industries seem to confuse "new" with "better". New just means it is a recent change, it might be better or much worse. New does not make something better. Better is better. Sometimes what is better is how it used to be.

leetharris 3y ago
I mean when two concepts are at war and are sometimes incompatible. For example, I am a PC gamer. I think mouse / keyboard is the best way to play many types of games. But it impractical to have a M/KB on a phone. So when I play a mobile game I wish I had a M/KB, but I am OK with sacrificing it because I have a portable form factor that was previously not possible. The new Volvo CX30, for example, put a lot of very simple buttons in the center so they wouldn't need to manufacture a left side driver and right side driver model with completely different layouts. It's likely not as intuitive, but the reduction in manufacturing costs allows them to deliver EVs for cheaper. This is the kind of idea I was trying to convey, but I admit it was confusing.
- philote 3y ago
  Surprisingly nobody else has mentioned having physical buttons on a phone. But IMO a keyboard is absolutely practical for a phone. One of the first smartphones I bought had a slide-out keyboard. It's nice to be able to tell when you hit a button and that you're hitting the right one. My fat fingers can't handle on-screen keyboards well, and swiping words never works as well as I hope. So I end up frustrated and trying to fix my text constantly.

dzhiurgis 3y ago

I agree Tesla's touchscreen is perfect. I would love to disable few things in UI (i.e. some minimalistic mode with speedo only) but it's fine. What I do hate with climate is the stupid vents. I know many people hate when wind blows to their face, but I love it and it's impossible to get it right in mine. Even if you dial it down to be barely acceptable it seems to reset after each drive.

glimshe 3y ago

"New" isn't the same as "progress". Touchscreen-only interfaces are a degradation in favor of degradation.

leetharris 3y ago
I think you are intentionally ignoring the benefits in favor of your point. Controls are centralized, I have everything in one place which I greatly prefer. There are far less physical buttons that can break or wear out. Manufacturing is much simpler. Visually it's far less cluttered. And no cars are going "touchscreen only." Even Tesla with its aggressive move towards less parts still has controls for windows, hazards, lights, etc.

JohnFen 3y ago

> I am the type that will gladly accept a little degradation in favor of progress and minimalism. Is it really progress if it's a degradation? And what's so awesome about minimalism that it's worth a worse UI? Just trying to understand the cost/benefit analysis here.

leetharris 3y ago
I'll give you an example of something that I think is progress and some may disagree with me. For vent control on a Tesla, you have to pull up a visualization and "drag" the airflow to where you want it to go. Kinda silly compared to just moving your vent like in the old days. But when I use it on that screen, I can adjust airflow for ALL of my passengers from one spot. I can change the airflow for multiple areas of the car, I can change heated/cooled seats, I can split the air, I can turn on biohazard mode, etc. To contrast this, on my previous car, the physical "heated seats" button was in a different place for every single seat. So if my wife or kid left theirs on, it stayed on unless I reach across the car to turn it off or get out and go into the backseat. I get that this is an extremely minor example, but I do think a combination of good centralized physical buttons and a well made UI can be a good combo. Another small simple example I'm thinking of off the top of my head is sound balance. On my previous car to change fade/balance to avoid waking small children on a road trip, it was a physical button click and scrolling through menus to scroll an arbitrary number for left/right, then backing out, then doing the same for an arbitrary number for back/front. In a Tesla, I just pull up the visualization and click one time in one spot for exactly where I want the sound to be centered. These little things add up and I think eventually someone will nail it.