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When people plug in their cars: 1: They expect them to start charging. 2: They expect them be charged when they return. Please don't let your imagination run

When people plug in their cars: 1: They expect them to start charging. 2: They expect them be charged when they return. Please don't let your imagination run away with schemes like this. The incentives might be nice, but they'll only attract people who understand them and are in a situation to take advantage of them.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
I dispute that. Ontario Ultra-low-overnight rates let me charge my car overnight for $2 or during peak periods for $25. Not too many people are going to ignore savings like that. I just tell my car to make sure it's charged & warmed by 7AM and it takes care of the rest. If I had the opportunity to join VPP I'd just tell it to make sure that it was at 80% at 7AM and never below 50% any other time.
edent 3y ago
I think every EV I've driven has a charging timer - so I've been able to say "only charge overnight when prices are cheaper". Some have "Be charged to 100% by this time" so they can pick and choose when to start charging. Please don't let your lack of experience run away concocting scenarios which don't exist.
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  > lack of experience I've had electric cars for almost a decade, and I currently have two Teslas. > concocting scenarios which don't exist I've had plenty of situations where my car didn't charge. (Don't buy an electric Chrysler, btw.) The most recent situations have to do with Tesla's new feature where the car will primarily charge on solar. > "Be charged to 100% by this time" What I hit was with my dual car charger. (Grizzle) It gets screwed up by things like timers when two cars are plugged in. It divides the amperage up evenly until a car finishes charging, and then gives the car that is still charging most of the amperage. If the 2nd car is on a timer, the charger will never give it full amperage until you unplug and replug it. This is a problem with Tesla's solar charging feature, because only one car will charge at a time. When car 1 finishes and car 2 starts charging, the charger doesn't adjust, and the car 2 never gets full amperage. You'll hit the same thing if you have two cars plugged in and they are both on timers. Granted I could probably push on Grizzle to give me a firmware update, but my experience is that they ignore support questions.
thelastgallon 3y ago
Your assumption is there is no electricity at home or work, only at charging stations far away. But, we have electricity anywhere we have a building. In fact, thats the first utility thats hooked up before anything is even built. Now, we can think of charging an EV anytime it is parked. Residential garages have a 240V dryer outlet (or in the laundry room next to garage). That outlet can be used or an additional outlet can be added. Cars are parked 22 - 23 hours a day. They can charge anytime they are parked.
- gwbas1c 3y ago
  > Your assumption is there is no electricity at home or work I've driven electric cars for a decade and have two. That is not my assumption at all. My assumption is that most people will consider the car defective if they plug it in, and then it doesn't have a full charge when they come back to it. (Either overnight or at work.) > Residential garages have a 240V dryer outlet Where I live that was a recent code change. I had to install an outlet for my first electric car. When I built my house in 2017, I had to really push on the builder to include an outlet.
stephen_g 3y ago
If you've chosen to go to a fast charger, you're always going to get a charge and you'll just pay what it costs. That's not going to change. But for a destination charger (e.g. shopping center), or a charger at home or work, it doesn't have to be like that. I would have a system where there's three options (can be three big light up buttons) - 1. I need the battery charged right now, 2. I'd like the battery charged over the next 6 hours, and 3. I have enough charge for now, but do charge me up if it's free or prices are negative. Option 2 would probably be the default, because it would be able to modulate the demand and charge very cheaply, because it'd mostly only have to avoid the two-hour or so peak periods (like the solar duck curve). Option 1 is there when you need it, but you might pay a few dollars more for a charge. During the day in summer, in areas with lots of solar (like my state in Australia) you might be able to always select Option 3, and usually get a full charge (well, I'd set the 80% limit but fully up to there) every time without ever paying anything. It doesn't have to be hard - you just tell it you want charge right now, over the next little while, or you don't care, and you pay (or don't pay) a differently depending on what you select. It can be a very small number of super simple and extremely intuitive options, not complex settings you need to think about. People scare-monger about "Governments taking away our ability to use power when we want", but it's actually going to be "Utilities will offer incentives like free electricity if you choose to shift your usage" - just offering more options, not taking away freedoms.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

I dispute that. Ontario Ultra-low-overnight rates let me charge my car overnight for $2 or during peak periods for $25. Not too many people are going to ignore savings like that. I just tell my car to make sure it's charged & warmed by 7AM and it takes care of the rest. If I had the opportunity to join VPP I'd just tell it to make sure that it was at 80% at 7AM and never below 50% any other time.

edent 3y ago

I think every EV I've driven has a charging timer - so I've been able to say "only charge overnight when prices are cheaper". Some have "Be charged to 100% by this time" so they can pick and choose when to start charging. Please don't let your lack of experience run away concocting scenarios which don't exist.

gwbas1c 3y ago
> lack of experience I've had electric cars for almost a decade, and I currently have two Teslas. > concocting scenarios which don't exist I've had plenty of situations where my car didn't charge. (Don't buy an electric Chrysler, btw.) The most recent situations have to do with Tesla's new feature where the car will primarily charge on solar. > "Be charged to 100% by this time" What I hit was with my dual car charger. (Grizzle) It gets screwed up by things like timers when two cars are plugged in. It divides the amperage up evenly until a car finishes charging, and then gives the car that is still charging most of the amperage. If the 2nd car is on a timer, the charger will never give it full amperage until you unplug and replug it. This is a problem with Tesla's solar charging feature, because only one car will charge at a time. When car 1 finishes and car 2 starts charging, the charger doesn't adjust, and the car 2 never gets full amperage. You'll hit the same thing if you have two cars plugged in and they are both on timers. Granted I could probably push on Grizzle to give me a firmware update, but my experience is that they ignore support questions.

thelastgallon 3y ago

Your assumption is there is no electricity at home or work, only at charging stations far away. But, we have electricity anywhere we have a building. In fact, thats the first utility thats hooked up before anything is even built. Now, we can think of charging an EV anytime it is parked. Residential garages have a 240V dryer outlet (or in the laundry room next to garage). That outlet can be used or an additional outlet can be added. Cars are parked 22 - 23 hours a day. They can charge anytime they are parked.

gwbas1c 3y ago
> Your assumption is there is no electricity at home or work I've driven electric cars for a decade and have two. That is not my assumption at all. My assumption is that most people will consider the car defective if they plug it in, and then it doesn't have a full charge when they come back to it. (Either overnight or at work.) > Residential garages have a 240V dryer outlet Where I live that was a recent code change. I had to install an outlet for my first electric car. When I built my house in 2017, I had to really push on the builder to include an outlet.

stephen_g 3y ago

If you've chosen to go to a fast charger, you're always going to get a charge and you'll just pay what it costs. That's not going to change. But for a destination charger (e.g. shopping center), or a charger at home or work, it doesn't have to be like that. I would have a system where there's three options (can be three big light up buttons) - 1. I need the battery charged right now, 2. I'd like the battery charged over the next 6 hours, and 3. I have enough charge for now, but do charge me up if it's free or prices are negative. Option 2 would probably be the default, because it would be able to modulate the demand and charge very cheaply, because it'd mostly only have to avoid the two-hour or so peak periods (like the solar duck curve). Option 1 is there when you need it, but you might pay a few dollars more for a charge. During the day in summer, in areas with lots of solar (like my state in Australia) you might be able to always select Option 3, and usually get a full charge (well, I'd set the 80% limit but fully up to there) every time without ever paying anything. It doesn't have to be hard - you just tell it you want charge right now, over the next little while, or you don't care, and you pay (or don't pay) a differently depending on what you select. It can be a very small number of super simple and extremely intuitive options, not complex settings you need to think about. People scare-monger about "Governments taking away our ability to use power when we want", but it's actually going to be "Utilities will offer incentives like free electricity if you choose to shift your usage" - just offering more options, not taking away freedoms.