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Embrace, Extend, Extinguish... I'm always a bit leery of things like this when massive companies begin adopting open source things such as this. Google Chat em

by ixwt 3y ago

Embrace, Extend, Extinguish... I'm always a bit leery of things like this when massive companies begin adopting open source things such as this. Google Chat embracing XMPP, only to end up abandoning it (as Google does). Slack having an IRC gateway, only to end up abandoning it. There are probably other examples, but these are the ones off the top of my head. These technologies still exist, but in their own bubble. I doubt that Flipboard adopting and dropping ActivityPub support would have a significant impact in the long run. But I'm hesitantly happy about this.

apitman 3y ago
As someone who never really used XMPP, was it worse off after Google compared to before? I mean sure a ton of users lost access to XMPP after they ended support, but surely most of them never would have used XMPP in the first place.
- indymike 3y ago
  > but surely most of them never would have used XMPP in the first place. There was a time that Facebook messenger was XMPP and Google chat was XMPP, so there was a time it was gaining a lot of traction. Most people just think their email is email. They don't see it as using SMTP/IMAP/POP3.
  - RF_Savage 3y ago
    WhatsApp was also XMPP and I had friends using it with 3rd pary clients.
  - apitman 3y ago
    I guess what I'm asking is was adoption by big tech a net negative? If you add 50 million users then take away 50 million users, then maybe no harm done. Unless there were other effects as well.
    - webmaven 3y ago
      Gaining then losing 50m users is a net negative in a world where "line goes up and to the right" (ie. momentum) is the most basic heuristic for assessing the viability of a platform (and especially so for social platforms where the users create the content). The only way that negative effect is muted is if the 50m users is only a small fraction of the platform's reach. Say, under 2%.
    - indymike 3y ago
      This was a classic play where big tech used XMPP to grow their user base, but as users changed left to escape various paper cuts (ads in the UI, lack of utility, etc...), big tech realized they could not force people to stay on their platform. So, big tech does what it does when it has more to lose than gain - it went closed.
- zhivota 3y ago
  Personally those days were the easiest to connect with people. Now I have some people who only use Messenger, others who only use WhatsApp, others who only use Signal, etc. Back then I just fired up Trillium and to me it was all the same. Really the XMPP part didn't matter so much as open APIs and third party clients. XMPP was just a natural rationalization of that status quo.
testernews 3y ago
That I had to scroll this far to find this comment means y’all have forgotten your history…

by ixwt 3y ago

apitman 3y ago

As someone who never really used XMPP, was it worse off after Google compared to before? I mean sure a ton of users lost access to XMPP after they ended support, but surely most of them never would have used XMPP in the first place.

indymike 3y ago
> but surely most of them never would have used XMPP in the first place. There was a time that Facebook messenger was XMPP and Google chat was XMPP, so there was a time it was gaining a lot of traction. Most people just think their email is email. They don't see it as using SMTP/IMAP/POP3.
- RF_Savage 3y ago
  WhatsApp was also XMPP and I had friends using it with 3rd pary clients.
- apitman 3y ago
  I guess what I'm asking is was adoption by big tech a net negative? If you add 50 million users then take away 50 million users, then maybe no harm done. Unless there were other effects as well.
  - webmaven 3y ago
    Gaining then losing 50m users is a net negative in a world where "line goes up and to the right" (ie. momentum) is the most basic heuristic for assessing the viability of a platform (and especially so for social platforms where the users create the content). The only way that negative effect is muted is if the 50m users is only a small fraction of the platform's reach. Say, under 2%.
  - indymike 3y ago
    This was a classic play where big tech used XMPP to grow their user base, but as users changed left to escape various paper cuts (ads in the UI, lack of utility, etc...), big tech realized they could not force people to stay on their platform. So, big tech does what it does when it has more to lose than gain - it went closed.
zhivota 3y ago
Personally those days were the easiest to connect with people. Now I have some people who only use Messenger, others who only use WhatsApp, others who only use Signal, etc. Back then I just fired up Trillium and to me it was all the same. Really the XMPP part didn't matter so much as open APIs and third party clients. XMPP was just a natural rationalization of that status quo.

testernews 3y ago

That I had to scroll this far to find this comment means y’all have forgotten your history…