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I believe Toyota @ NUMMI actually showed that they could win over the union and get everyone bought into their lean culture, but it took time / patience. Notab

I believe Toyota @ NUMMI actually showed that they could win over the union and get everyone bought into their lean culture, but it took time / patience. Notably, this plant was considered a failure before because the of the antagonism between labor/mgmt led to really toxic behavior. GM blamed the union labor, but Toyota ended up firing the managers and got buy in from labor because of their long-term / labor-centric culture, including more empowerment, respect, high quality training, etc. https://www.lean.org/the-lean-post/articles/how-nummi-changed-its-culture/ https://www.lean.org/the-lean-post/articles/how-nummi-change...

AlbertCory 3y ago
And yet NUMMI failed. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a5514/4350856/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a5514/4350856/ Then the building became Solyndra, which also failed. GM, of course, is one of the stupidest companies on Earth, so they'd have trouble selling free beer to college football fans. If you want to blame them you won't get any argument from me.
- nickpinkston 3y ago
  My argument is essentially that USS is a broken dinosaur like GM, and I think a NUMMI-style culture shakeup could actually work. I generally think USS/GM are kinda beyond saving, but even incremental change could be good, and I think Toyota still knows how to run a car plant better than GM.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    Only a diehard GM fanboy could deny that. Note that Toyota did not take over GM. That might have actually worked, albeit being politically unacceptable.
- ska 3y ago
  It's less clear that NUMMI failed to meet Toyota's goals for it.
  - xp84 3y ago
    Right, and that could be just as much a reflection of the fact that American workers are very different than Japanese workers. Also in a high-cost place like the Bay Area I can see how it would be hard to make a case to keep that particular plant, instead of an inland plant like 90% of foreign automaker US plants are. And once you decide yes, let's move production to Kentucky or whatever, so our employees' rent will be $1000 instead of $2500, that's not going to be a union shop. None of this means that NUMMI failed or even that Toyota hates unions. I think all this would have gone roughly the same even if NUMMI had become a non-union shop under Toyota.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      GM was what failed. Your argument about the Bay Area falls apart when we consider the Saturn plant in Tennessee. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a4536/4332298/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a4536/4332298/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/saturn-a-wealth-of-lessons-from-failure/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/saturn-a-wealth-...
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >GM, of course, is one of the stupidest companies on Earth I keep asking myself how is GM so stupid.
- hbarka 3y ago
  This building (really a massive factory area in Fremont) is now Tesla. NUMMI produced some really good cars under the Saturn brand. GM messed up in this collaboration. GM quitting Saturn is a story in itself.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    No, Saturns were produced in TN. See my other post.
    - hbarka 3y ago
      I stand corrected. Yes, Saturns were in TN, not Fremont plant. The whole GM, NUMMI, Saturn story was playing out in a collective moment circa 2010. Here is an audio interview in This American Life series a week before NUMMI was to close. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/transcript
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    NUMMI did the Geo cars. They were good!

AlbertCory 3y ago

And yet NUMMI failed. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a5514/4350856/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a5514/4350856/ Then the building became Solyndra, which also failed. GM, of course, is one of the stupidest companies on Earth, so they'd have trouble selling free beer to college football fans. If you want to blame them you won't get any argument from me.

nickpinkston 3y ago
My argument is essentially that USS is a broken dinosaur like GM, and I think a NUMMI-style culture shakeup could actually work. I generally think USS/GM are kinda beyond saving, but even incremental change could be good, and I think Toyota still knows how to run a car plant better than GM.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  Only a diehard GM fanboy could deny that. Note that Toyota did not take over GM. That might have actually worked, albeit being politically unacceptable.
ska 3y ago
It's less clear that NUMMI failed to meet Toyota's goals for it.
- xp84 3y ago
  Right, and that could be just as much a reflection of the fact that American workers are very different than Japanese workers. Also in a high-cost place like the Bay Area I can see how it would be hard to make a case to keep that particular plant, instead of an inland plant like 90% of foreign automaker US plants are. And once you decide yes, let's move production to Kentucky or whatever, so our employees' rent will be $1000 instead of $2500, that's not going to be a union shop. None of this means that NUMMI failed or even that Toyota hates unions. I think all this would have gone roughly the same even if NUMMI had become a non-union shop under Toyota.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    GM was what failed. Your argument about the Bay Area falls apart when we consider the Saturn plant in Tennessee. https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a4536/4332298/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a4536/4332298/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/saturn-a-wealth-of-lessons-from-failure/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/saturn-a-wealth-...
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>GM, of course, is one of the stupidest companies on Earth I keep asking myself how is GM so stupid.
hbarka 3y ago
This building (really a massive factory area in Fremont) is now Tesla. NUMMI produced some really good cars under the Saturn brand. GM messed up in this collaboration. GM quitting Saturn is a story in itself.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  No, Saturns were produced in TN. See my other post.
  - hbarka 3y ago
    I stand corrected. Yes, Saturns were in TN, not Fremont plant. The whole GM, NUMMI, Saturn story was playing out in a collective moment circa 2010. Here is an audio interview in This American Life series a week before NUMMI was to close. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/transcript https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/transcript
- Spooky23 3y ago
  NUMMI did the Geo cars. They were good!