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> I notice a lot of hate toward JS, but honestly when I first stumbled upon it I felt like a dream came true; it gives you the power to create experiences and s

> I notice a lot of hate toward JS, but honestly when I first stumbled upon it I felt like a dream came true; it gives you the power to create experiences and share them almost effortlessly The complaints about JS are almost never about the concept of a programming language that runs in your browser, and the upside you describe seems to apply to any language that runs in your browser.

d-lisp 3y ago
That's false, OP talks about that, many people wish the web to be static only and many people wants to be able to read pages "without js" and complain about the fact that they cannot read a page without js.
bee_rider 3y ago
The only languages browsers should understand are markup languages, scripting and programming: no, none of that. Documents, not programs.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  Why?
  - MrVandemar 3y ago
    Not OP, but the number of "documents" on the web that "require" programming/scripting that bring no value to those documents, is vast. I'm not talking about documents/articles that have useful embedded video, or informative interactive graphs and things. I'm talking about "documents" that require a multiple javascript libraries to load in order to inject a "<p>Hello, it's a nice day and I had waffles for breakfast" into a DOM. There is no "graceful degredation" with these things anymore; it's either javascript on, or no content, which is baffling and frustrating. It's not just a "get off my lawn" thing, it has real implications on energy efficiency, bandwidth, and most of all accessibility: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/01/the-unreasonable-effectiveness-of-simple-html/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/01/the-unreasonable-effectiven...
    - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
      > Not OP, but the number of "documents" on the web that "require" programming/scripting that bring no value to those documents, is vast. I mean, sure. But if our rubric is whether a technology being misused constitutes it having no business existing, that puts a shitload of tech on the chopping block. > I'm talking about "documents" that require a multiple javascript libraries to load in order to inject a "<p>Hello, it's a nice day and I had waffles for breakfast" into a DOM. You're misunderstanding the function. The function is not to distribute documents efficiently. The function is to place documents somewhere they can be distributed in such a way where the business majors can edit them without needing to pay a web developer to do it correctly. Hence the absolute plague of BMS systems, which are sold to the aforementioned manager/consultant vampire class so they can make the website pop and don't need to deal with a 20-something rolling their eyes at them when they ask for that.

d-lisp 3y ago

That's false, OP talks about that, many people wish the web to be static only and many people wants to be able to read pages "without js" and complain about the fact that they cannot read a page without js.

bee_rider 3y ago

The only languages browsers should understand are markup languages, scripting and programming: no, none of that. Documents, not programs.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
Why?
- MrVandemar 3y ago
  Not OP, but the number of "documents" on the web that "require" programming/scripting that bring no value to those documents, is vast. I'm not talking about documents/articles that have useful embedded video, or informative interactive graphs and things. I'm talking about "documents" that require a multiple javascript libraries to load in order to inject a "<p>Hello, it's a nice day and I had waffles for breakfast" into a DOM. There is no "graceful degredation" with these things anymore; it's either javascript on, or no content, which is baffling and frustrating. It's not just a "get off my lawn" thing, it has real implications on energy efficiency, bandwidth, and most of all accessibility: https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/01/the-unreasonable-effectiveness-of-simple-html/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2021/01/the-unreasonable-effectiven...
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    > Not OP, but the number of "documents" on the web that "require" programming/scripting that bring no value to those documents, is vast. I mean, sure. But if our rubric is whether a technology being misused constitutes it having no business existing, that puts a shitload of tech on the chopping block. > I'm talking about "documents" that require a multiple javascript libraries to load in order to inject a "<p>Hello, it's a nice day and I had waffles for breakfast" into a DOM. You're misunderstanding the function. The function is not to distribute documents efficiently. The function is to place documents somewhere they can be distributed in such a way where the business majors can edit them without needing to pay a web developer to do it correctly. Hence the absolute plague of BMS systems, which are sold to the aforementioned manager/consultant vampire class so they can make the website pop and don't need to deal with a 20-something rolling their eyes at them when they ask for that.