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This keeps getting touted again and again and it's wrong every time. The problem isn't generation, it's storage and distribution, in particular the last mile. T
by glitchc 3y ago
This keeps getting touted again and again and it's wrong every time. The problem isn't generation, it's storage and distribution, in particular the last mile. Try running a steel smelter on solar power. Natural gas and coal can be transported directly to the factory, solar and wind cannot.
Additionally, dirty coal is very cheap in parts of the world, far cheaper than solar plus batteries. Remember, most of the stuff we consume is not produced in America, and is not subject to US energy policy.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoStorage is irrelevant until they decommission the natgas plants. You're being disingenuous bringing steel mills since they don't use electricity. But any industrial plant that does run on electricity runs fine using solar power during the day and natgas generated electricity at night.
- glitchc 3y agoAnd it also runs on natural gas all day and night, so why bother with solar at all? Sans incentives and regulations, solar makes little economic sense for most use cases. Steel (and in general metal) production most definitely uses electricity, and copious amounts of it.
- bryanlarsen 3y agoWhy bother? Solar can produce electricity for 0.5c / kWh during the daytime. That's why.
- megaman821 3y agoI don't understand, if you are using natural gas for electricity why not make it last twice as long and use the cheaper solar during the day?
- Ajedi32 3y agoThere's an opportunity cost to having an expensive power plant just sitting around doing nothing during the day. Yes you use less fuel, but how much of the cost of power is the fuel itself vs infrastructure and other non-marginal costs? So only if the total cost of solar is less than the marginal cost of gas would it make economic sense to replace gas with solar during the day.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago> steel mills since they don't use electricity. Really ? p. 7 > Historically, the steel industry has accounted for about 6 percent of U.S. energy consumption. Today, that figure is less than 2 percent and will decrease further to 1.5 percent by 2010 > The total replacement of the open hearth process by basic oxygen and electric furnaces. > The growth of the electric furnace sector of the industry at the expense of hot metal-based processes ... p. 13 > Electricity (Figure 11): The correlation between plant tons and kilowatt hours over a wide range of production shows that the use of electricity outside the EAF is significant. With an average of 770 kWh/shipped ton and a typical EAF consumption under 500 kWh/cast ton, a significant amount of energy is used for auxiliary equipment in the melt shop, rolling, oxygen production, and general utilities https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2013/11/f4/steel_energy_use.pdf https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2013/11/f4/steel_ene...