3 ms·

I don't follow your argument. Verizon's network is federated with AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, whomever. Messages can be routed freely between those networks unadu

I don't follow your argument. Verizon's network is federated with AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, whomever. Messages can be routed freely between those networks unadulterated. That is what federation means. To communicate via iMessage you must use Apple's servers. There are no other servers which can accept iMessage messages and forward them back and forth with Apple's server. (Only in a lossy manner, via MMS.) It is not a federated protocol. Federation promotes competition. Preventing 3rd party access by any mechanism stifles competition. If iMessage were federated, as in, Beeper could host their own servers which federate with Apple's, I think more of us would side with Apple here.

MichaelZuo 3y ago
Don't all Verizon sim cards, by definition, rely on Verizon's servers? How can they be federated? i.e. If every last Verizon server is shut down then they become small plastic bricks. It wouldn't matter how many agreements have been signed with AT&T, T-mobile, etc...
- ImJamal 3y ago
  It is federated in the same way matrix or mastodon are. You join a server and it can talk to other servers. If the server you are on shuts down you won't be able to login and make posts no matter how many agreements have been signed between different servers. It also uses the hardware of the server you are on. You could even start your own carrier just like you could set up your own Mastodon server. Of course there would be far more regulations, but it is technically possible.
  - MichaelZuo 3y ago
    It's clearly not as procuring another SIM card from another carrier requires actual effort and money that is by no means guaranteed to be available for everyone. (And in some countries there is an ID check or other legal obligations/contracts must be signed.) And even then the new SIM card still won't allow the phone to connect with any of the proprietary cellular towers and antennas for normal usage, only emergency situations. This is not federated in any sense.
    - ImJamal 3y ago
      >It's clearly not as procuring another SIM card from another carrier requires actual effort and money that is by no means guaranteed to be available for everyone Setting up an email/mastodon/matrix server requires effort and money. You either need to self host which requires a local internet connection, electricity, and ideally a static IP none of which are guarantee. If you host at a hosting company it costs money. >(And in some countries there is an ID check or other legal obligations/contracts must be signed.) Hetzner and other hosting companies require IDs as well. I wouldn't be surprised if in some countries you have to have an ID to get internet. >And even then the new SIM card still won't allow the phone to connect with any of the proprietary cellular towers and antennas for normal usage, only emergency situations. A mastodon server won't connect with a proprietary protocol so it seems like it is the same boat? It won't even connect in emergency situations! >This is not federated in any sense. Seems exactly the same. There are just far more gatekeepers when it comes to carriers.
      - MichaelZuo 3y ago
        > Seems exactly the same. There are just far more gatekeepers when it comes to carriers. According to this logic, everything in human civilization could be considered 'federated', just that many have a very large number of 'gatekeepers'.
        ImJamal 3y ago
        Not at all. iMessage which is what this whole thread is about is an example of something not federated. I can't set up an iMessage server and connect with Apple's. I can set up my own email server and email an iCloud email address.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        That sounds like there are a few dozen or hundred 'gatekeepers' in the way.

MichaelZuo 3y ago

Don't all Verizon sim cards, by definition, rely on Verizon's servers? How can they be federated? i.e. If every last Verizon server is shut down then they become small plastic bricks. It wouldn't matter how many agreements have been signed with AT&T, T-mobile, etc...

ImJamal 3y ago
It is federated in the same way matrix or mastodon are. You join a server and it can talk to other servers. If the server you are on shuts down you won't be able to login and make posts no matter how many agreements have been signed between different servers. It also uses the hardware of the server you are on. You could even start your own carrier just like you could set up your own Mastodon server. Of course there would be far more regulations, but it is technically possible.
- MichaelZuo 3y ago
  It's clearly not as procuring another SIM card from another carrier requires actual effort and money that is by no means guaranteed to be available for everyone. (And in some countries there is an ID check or other legal obligations/contracts must be signed.) And even then the new SIM card still won't allow the phone to connect with any of the proprietary cellular towers and antennas for normal usage, only emergency situations. This is not federated in any sense.
  - ImJamal 3y ago
    >It's clearly not as procuring another SIM card from another carrier requires actual effort and money that is by no means guaranteed to be available for everyone Setting up an email/mastodon/matrix server requires effort and money. You either need to self host which requires a local internet connection, electricity, and ideally a static IP none of which are guarantee. If you host at a hosting company it costs money. >(And in some countries there is an ID check or other legal obligations/contracts must be signed.) Hetzner and other hosting companies require IDs as well. I wouldn't be surprised if in some countries you have to have an ID to get internet. >And even then the new SIM card still won't allow the phone to connect with any of the proprietary cellular towers and antennas for normal usage, only emergency situations. A mastodon server won't connect with a proprietary protocol so it seems like it is the same boat? It won't even connect in emergency situations! >This is not federated in any sense. Seems exactly the same. There are just far more gatekeepers when it comes to carriers.
    - MichaelZuo 3y ago
      > Seems exactly the same. There are just far more gatekeepers when it comes to carriers. According to this logic, everything in human civilization could be considered 'federated', just that many have a very large number of 'gatekeepers'.
      - ImJamal 3y ago
        Not at all. iMessage which is what this whole thread is about is an example of something not federated. I can't set up an iMessage server and connect with Apple's. I can set up my own email server and email an iCloud email address.
        MichaelZuo 3y ago
        That sounds like there are a few dozen or hundred 'gatekeepers' in the way.