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I wonder if there would be interest in a non-crypto version of the Brave program. In theory, that's exactly what they do: you set a total monthly donation and w

I wonder if there would be interest in a non-crypto version of the Brave program. In theory, that's exactly what they do: you set a total monthly donation and which creators you want to support, and the browser keeps track of how much each should get at the end of the month. Unfortunately, what ended up happening is that the program is too complicated for people with disposable income who would be interested and it got stuck in a bad spot between "big enough to attract crypto 'investors' who only care about hodling" and "not big enough to be attractive to high-profile creators".

danpalmer 3y ago
There was a startup many years ago that I can't remember the name of this who did a similar micropayment tipping sort of thing. The problem was that they essentially collected money on behalf of creators who had no idea the platform existed and they would have to then go and sign up to retrieve funds. I don't want to support creators through something they don't consent to using like that.
- edent 3y ago
  There was https://flattr.com/ https://flattr.com/ and, more recently, https://twitter.com/coil https://twitter.com/coil But, yes, a complete chicken-and-egg problem.
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    It was Flattr, thanks edent! Very 2012, I actually shared an office with them but couldn't remember the name all this time later!
- rglullis 3y ago
  To be honest, I don't mind if the middleman is actually holding the funds and gives them out when the taker signs up. Creating a totally new market where you need to develop both sides of the transaction is not an easy task.
- noirscape 3y ago
  That might also have been Brave. Tom Scott was targeted by their crap[0] and I recall them fucking about with unsolicited donations for the archive.is operator as well. It seems their business model has changed nowadays (unless they've lapsed again, which Brave has done a few times I think?) but that's definitely been the Brave model in the past. [0]: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-browser-no-longer-claims-to-fundraise-on-behalf-of-others-so-thats-nice/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-br...
- verzali 3y ago
  I always had a vague idea that this is something a blockchain would work well for. I never looked into enough to figure out the details though.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
Not to mention, it's pretty much impossible to get paid with the program in a lot of (most?) countries. As in, you get paid in BAT in some custodial service, but you can't really get it off that service to trade it to your local currency and get it into your bank account. You can't get it onto a blockchain to swap on a DEX and convert to USDT or whatever. And if you can, you'd be eaten away by fees. Add to that, tax on BAT payments would be a nightmare to figure out.
- jorvi 3y ago
  You can trade BAT on Coinbase, Binance and Kraken. Probably a lot of smaller exchanges as well, those just seemed like the most logical one's to check. So much for a black hole.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    So you pay $20-30 to send your BAT on Ethereum to your exchange, where you then pay additional trade and withdrawal fees. You must be making a lot of BAT for this to even be worth it. I haven't seen anyone on https://www.reddit.com/r/BATProject https://www.reddit.com/r/BATProject report making more than ~$10/month, and the overwhelming majority just make anywhere from $0.20 - $5/month. So maybe in two years it's going to be worthwhile for them to go through the withdrawal steps. In the meantime they technically have to report their BAT distributions as earnings against their income (so they pay taxes for them). Then track the average cost basis til the time of their eventual disposal. In many countries, the network fees, trading fees, and withdrawal fees won't be deductible unless they're filing as a business. So they may even lose money throughout the process when you take additional taxes into account. And either way it's a tax headache, and you risk opening yourself up to penalties if you file improperly, or paying an accountant extra to sort through everything for you.
    - rglullis 3y ago
      Either people are making enough money to withdraw, or the amount is so low that is not required to be reported. No tax authority will come after you because you didn't declare the $100 bucks worth of crypto you got in one whole fiscal year.
JohnFen 3y ago
I don't tend to watch media in my browser at all, so at least for me, it would make no difference.

danpalmer 3y ago

There was a startup many years ago that I can't remember the name of this who did a similar micropayment tipping sort of thing. The problem was that they essentially collected money on behalf of creators who had no idea the platform existed and they would have to then go and sign up to retrieve funds. I don't want to support creators through something they don't consent to using like that.

edent 3y ago
There was https://flattr.com/ https://flattr.com/ and, more recently, https://twitter.com/coil https://twitter.com/coil But, yes, a complete chicken-and-egg problem.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  It was Flattr, thanks edent! Very 2012, I actually shared an office with them but couldn't remember the name all this time later!
rglullis 3y ago
To be honest, I don't mind if the middleman is actually holding the funds and gives them out when the taker signs up. Creating a totally new market where you need to develop both sides of the transaction is not an easy task.
noirscape 3y ago
That might also have been Brave. Tom Scott was targeted by their crap[0] and I recall them fucking about with unsolicited donations for the archive.is operator as well. It seems their business model has changed nowadays (unless they've lapsed again, which Brave has done a few times I think?) but that's definitely been the Brave model in the past. [0]: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-browser-no-longer-claims-to-fundraise-on-behalf-of-others-so-thats-nice/ https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2019/01/13/brave-web-br...
verzali 3y ago
I always had a vague idea that this is something a blockchain would work well for. I never looked into enough to figure out the details though.

pcthrowaway 3y ago

Not to mention, it's pretty much impossible to get paid with the program in a lot of (most?) countries. As in, you get paid in BAT in some custodial service, but you can't really get it off that service to trade it to your local currency and get it into your bank account. You can't get it onto a blockchain to swap on a DEX and convert to USDT or whatever. And if you can, you'd be eaten away by fees. Add to that, tax on BAT payments would be a nightmare to figure out.

jorvi 3y ago
You can trade BAT on Coinbase, Binance and Kraken. Probably a lot of smaller exchanges as well, those just seemed like the most logical one's to check. So much for a black hole.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  So you pay $20-30 to send your BAT on Ethereum to your exchange, where you then pay additional trade and withdrawal fees. You must be making a lot of BAT for this to even be worth it. I haven't seen anyone on https://www.reddit.com/r/BATProject https://www.reddit.com/r/BATProject report making more than ~$10/month, and the overwhelming majority just make anywhere from $0.20 - $5/month. So maybe in two years it's going to be worthwhile for them to go through the withdrawal steps. In the meantime they technically have to report their BAT distributions as earnings against their income (so they pay taxes for them). Then track the average cost basis til the time of their eventual disposal. In many countries, the network fees, trading fees, and withdrawal fees won't be deductible unless they're filing as a business. So they may even lose money throughout the process when you take additional taxes into account. And either way it's a tax headache, and you risk opening yourself up to penalties if you file improperly, or paying an accountant extra to sort through everything for you.
  - rglullis 3y ago
    Either people are making enough money to withdraw, or the amount is so low that is not required to be reported. No tax authority will come after you because you didn't declare the $100 bucks worth of crypto you got in one whole fiscal year.

JohnFen 3y ago

I don't tend to watch media in my browser at all, so at least for me, it would make no difference.