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> To get more Ukrainians killed for no gain of territory? How do you see alternative options? I don't see "okay guys, let's wrap it up" as a thing invaders wi

> To get more Ukrainians killed for no gain of territory? How do you see alternative options? I don't see "okay guys, let's wrap it up" as a thing invaders will accept. It will also mean "you will never return home" or "your family is under occupational regime right now, good luck" for a lot of locals, and that's unlikely this option will be accepted by them. I think some context may help. Russian government media clearly wrote that Ukrainians should be eradicated as the idea with language forbidden (they say it's "Russian spoiled by Polish" and civilians "suffering the hardships of occupation for the support of nazi regime (with further clarification that everyone is a supporter)". I'm not paraphrasing or exaggerating. I'm almost quoting. So it's not like they plan to stop on "already captured territories". It would be more of a delay before the next round, like the past few years long ceasefire before 2022. This way the question gets reduced to "at what rate do you want to see your country being dismantled?". > EU should really put more cash on table to help UA. More high-tech weaponry like rockets, drones and other stuff will lead to lesser Ukrainian casualties with bigger territorial gains, so that's a better option compared to the current state of things. Large scale wars usually go on until one of the sides can't continue anymore. Ukrainian government don't have plans to stop anytime soon and surrender may shatter the rest of the country in multiple ways, effectively ending somewhat normal functioning for years or decades to come. Also, military draft goes on and enlisted soldiers will go to battle. So it would be nice and wise to give them some technological advantage. > People talk lightly about the lives of others when its not theirs on the line Also, people talk lightly about giving up territory when it's not the territory with their homes on the line.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Agreed, and even if Russia was "content" to "only" take the territory they currently have occupied, and Putin could somehow sell this to his population as a "victory" ... the long term situation would be a nightmare. They would not stop undermining the independence of Ukraine, and would in fact be emboldened to do more. There would be no "peace", there'd be hybrid warfare incursions constantly, they'd start crowing about Russian language rights even more, and use it as a justification for meddling probably at an even more intense level than before. Every election would be undermined, people assassinated, bought off, manipulated. Remember Russia last year changed its constitution to include Ukrainian land in its borders. Lands which it currently doesn't even occupy. They have spent the last 10 years selling their population on the line that Ukrainians were doing some sort of genocide on the population in the Donbas -- so just imagine if Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts were split in two, as they are now? Official Russian ideology is Russo-supremacist, with an Orthodox Christian nationalist veneer. This is not the USSR era, with its "brotherhood of peoples" propaganda. Its right wing nationalist, and imperialist on that basis, and has shown itself willing to attempt to enforce this. Eventually they'd either get their way and turn Ukraine back into a client state, or invade again. Russia needs to be pushed back, its defense lines broken and its trade relationships properly severed, its energy exports denied access to the west until a substantial foreign policy shift is made by its leadership. Oh, and removed from the UN security council or the security council just abolished.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

Agreed, and even if Russia was "content" to "only" take the territory they currently have occupied, and Putin could somehow sell this to his population as a "victory" ... the long term situation would be a nightmare. They would not stop undermining the independence of Ukraine, and would in fact be emboldened to do more. There would be no "peace", there'd be hybrid warfare incursions constantly, they'd start crowing about Russian language rights even more, and use it as a justification for meddling probably at an even more intense level than before. Every election would be undermined, people assassinated, bought off, manipulated. Remember Russia last year changed its constitution to include Ukrainian land in its borders. Lands which it currently doesn't even occupy. They have spent the last 10 years selling their population on the line that Ukrainians were doing some sort of genocide on the population in the Donbas -- so just imagine if Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts were split in two, as they are now? Official Russian ideology is Russo-supremacist, with an Orthodox Christian nationalist veneer. This is not the USSR era, with its "brotherhood of peoples" propaganda. Its right wing nationalist, and imperialist on that basis, and has shown itself willing to attempt to enforce this. Eventually they'd either get their way and turn Ukraine back into a client state, or invade again. Russia needs to be pushed back, its defense lines broken and its trade relationships properly severed, its energy exports denied access to the west until a substantial foreign policy shift is made by its leadership. Oh, and removed from the UN security council or the security council just abolished.