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> Keep them safe Imagine an enemy uses troll farms to cause divisions, spread lies, propaganda and conspiracy theories in plain sight. This leads to people dis

by sofixa 3y ago

> Keep them safe Imagine an enemy uses troll farms to cause divisions, spread lies, propaganda and conspiracy theories in plain sight. This leads to people distrusting everything (how can you even know what is truth when there are so many lies out there, etc.), including medical advice from medical professionals, evacuation orders in case of natural disasters, etc. Or even participate in a coup attempt because social media has led them to believe there is some gross injustice, or whatever. Or go and decapitate teachers because social media told them they're offending their holy religion. Now, the above is factual, not an imaginary scenario. At the very least Russia has been caught directly doing the above, as well as paying actors to cause trouble and stoke divisions (like the guy burning Qurans in Sweden). In some countries there have even been fights between troll farms from different countries (it was somewhere in Central Africa between Russian and French troll farms) online. Same goes for ISIS and similar organisations that had very heavy recruitment online. So, do you really think combating misinformation such as the above isn't a part of keeping citizens safe? I'd take selective censorship of e.g. ISIS and affiliated groups in exchange for teachers not getting decapitated, thank you very much. (If anyone thinks I'm exaggerating with the decapitation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Samuel_Paty & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arras_school_stabbing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arras_school_stabbing which was "just" a stabbing)

smsm42 3y ago
What's causing people to distrust everything is not some troll farms lying to them. It's their own government lying to them, constantly, repeatedly, incessantly - and then claiming only strict control by the same government over all the information can save the citizens from evil trolls that are out to get them. I dgaf what Russians say, but when I see the US government lying constantly and the corporate press parroting these lies and submitting themselves to the partisan propaganda - I will never trust them ever again on anything.
LanzVonL 3y ago
[flagged]
nvm0n2 3y ago
> Now, the above is factual, not an imaginary scenario It's an imaginary scenario. You know that the whole Russiagate multi-year farce turned out to be nothing but lies from our own governments, right? It's been proven many times over. The idea that we have to be kept safe from "division" is especially hilarious given that the whole point of democracy is to allow people to work out their naturally occurring divisions peacefully.
- medvezhenok 3y ago
  The fact that foreign state actors employ disinformation tactics (and employ people to that end) is not a lie - it was known during Soviet Union times and is known today. The details of the Russian influence operation are irrelevant to the broader point - malicious actors will weaponize the medium, and non curated spaces quickly devolve into a toxic cesspool. Clearly you have never been a moderator of any community.
- sofixa 3y ago
  Who's talking about Russiagate? It's one of millions of scandals where Russian influence is there for all to see. It might be hard to quantify exactly in some cases, but it's undeniably there. Take a look at the Quran burning guy. Or the Austrian scandal. Also, Russia was but one of the examples. Is it imaginary that 2 teachers have been murdered by Islamic nutjobs in France off of social media? > The idea that we have to be kept safe from "division" is especially hilarious given that the whole point of democracy is to allow people to work out their naturally occurring divisions peacefully. That's hard in countries with broken political systems like the unbelievably stupid American dual party one. And is it actually working nowadays? To me from the outside it definitely seems like everything, even basic science and common sense, are immediately partisan. If one party is for something, the other is immediately against it regardless of merits. Maybe except Israel and army spending? And even in non broken systems, stuff like Covid was extremely politicised. You can't debate with a pigeon shitting everywhere.
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    > Russiagate? It's one of millions of scandals where Russian influence is there for all to see Ah I see, you never became aware of how that story ended. Russiagate ended with the discovery that it had all been a lie, that there was no Trump/Russia collusion and the US media had spent years knowingly propagandizing the population. There was no scandal, except the scandal of how the media could have done that. Eventually some American journalists even admitted what had happened. https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-president-part-1.php https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-p... But you seem to be stuck in 2018, before that had all been proven. You are yourself the victim of successful propaganda!
mikrotikker 3y ago
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety

by sofixa 3y ago

smsm42 3y ago

What's causing people to distrust everything is not some troll farms lying to them. It's their own government lying to them, constantly, repeatedly, incessantly - and then claiming only strict control by the same government over all the information can save the citizens from evil trolls that are out to get them. I dgaf what Russians say, but when I see the US government lying constantly and the corporate press parroting these lies and submitting themselves to the partisan propaganda - I will never trust them ever again on anything.

LanzVonL 3y ago

[flagged]

nvm0n2 3y ago

> Now, the above is factual, not an imaginary scenario It's an imaginary scenario. You know that the whole Russiagate multi-year farce turned out to be nothing but lies from our own governments, right? It's been proven many times over. The idea that we have to be kept safe from "division" is especially hilarious given that the whole point of democracy is to allow people to work out their naturally occurring divisions peacefully.

medvezhenok 3y ago
The fact that foreign state actors employ disinformation tactics (and employ people to that end) is not a lie - it was known during Soviet Union times and is known today. The details of the Russian influence operation are irrelevant to the broader point - malicious actors will weaponize the medium, and non curated spaces quickly devolve into a toxic cesspool. Clearly you have never been a moderator of any community.
sofixa 3y ago
Who's talking about Russiagate? It's one of millions of scandals where Russian influence is there for all to see. It might be hard to quantify exactly in some cases, but it's undeniably there. Take a look at the Quran burning guy. Or the Austrian scandal. Also, Russia was but one of the examples. Is it imaginary that 2 teachers have been murdered by Islamic nutjobs in France off of social media? > The idea that we have to be kept safe from "division" is especially hilarious given that the whole point of democracy is to allow people to work out their naturally occurring divisions peacefully. That's hard in countries with broken political systems like the unbelievably stupid American dual party one. And is it actually working nowadays? To me from the outside it definitely seems like everything, even basic science and common sense, are immediately partisan. If one party is for something, the other is immediately against it regardless of merits. Maybe except Israel and army spending? And even in non broken systems, stuff like Covid was extremely politicised. You can't debate with a pigeon shitting everywhere.
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  > Russiagate? It's one of millions of scandals where Russian influence is there for all to see Ah I see, you never became aware of how that story ended. Russiagate ended with the discovery that it had all been a lie, that there was no Trump/Russia collusion and the US media had spent years knowingly propagandizing the population. There was no scandal, except the scandal of how the media could have done that. Eventually some American journalists even admitted what had happened. https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-president-part-1.php https://www.cjr.org/special_report/trumped-up-press-versus-p... But you seem to be stuck in 2018, before that had all been proven. You are yourself the victim of successful propaganda!

mikrotikker 3y ago

Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety