4 ms·

> For oligarchs and elites, yes only putting complete economic lockdown could work. No way to travel and buy yourself or your kids comfy western way of life. I

by oytis 3y ago

> For oligarchs and elites, yes only putting complete economic lockdown could work. No way to travel and buy yourself or your kids comfy western way of life. I don't think that can work. Russian elites absolutely value power over Western way of life. Sanctions are only needed to starve Russian economy to a point where it cannot finance war - and it has been a mixed success so far, but in principle can work.

throwaway290 3y ago
> Russian elites absolutely value power over Western way of life some elites maybe, but their kids will only be after a couple of generations. It's one thing if you yourself cannot spend time in London but if your kids and relatives also cannot leave and buy a new iphone suddenly you have people to answer to.
- deredede 3y ago
  There is something surreal about the idea that the war would end by taking away some rich kids' iPhones.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    You know what I mean. iPhone is catch all standing for quality status-signaling cars, furniture, food, any electronics, etc etc. The dinosaurs who still remember USSR will be fine without those but for later generations it'll be a shock if Chinese knockoffs is all they can have now like the plebs. Those later generations are currently reaching prime age and they are leading comfortable shock-free life that just reinforces their understanding of how there can be no consequences for association with Putler. It's clear that they are immune while if you are a regular person not associated with government and elites you are hurt by war and sanctions. So what do regular people do? Try to be associated with government and elites as best they can. How? By supporting whatever the government does. I think you underestimate how simply a desire to have nice life and signal high status can change political outcomes
medo-bear 3y ago
> mixed success How do you define mixed success? It has been a more spectacular failure than the Ukranian summer counter offensive

by oytis 3y ago

throwaway290 3y ago

> Russian elites absolutely value power over Western way of life some elites maybe, but their kids will only be after a couple of generations. It's one thing if you yourself cannot spend time in London but if your kids and relatives also cannot leave and buy a new iphone suddenly you have people to answer to.

deredede 3y ago
There is something surreal about the idea that the war would end by taking away some rich kids' iPhones.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  You know what I mean. iPhone is catch all standing for quality status-signaling cars, furniture, food, any electronics, etc etc. The dinosaurs who still remember USSR will be fine without those but for later generations it'll be a shock if Chinese knockoffs is all they can have now like the plebs. Those later generations are currently reaching prime age and they are leading comfortable shock-free life that just reinforces their understanding of how there can be no consequences for association with Putler. It's clear that they are immune while if you are a regular person not associated with government and elites you are hurt by war and sanctions. So what do regular people do? Try to be associated with government and elites as best they can. How? By supporting whatever the government does. I think you underestimate how simply a desire to have nice life and signal high status can change political outcomes

medo-bear 3y ago

> mixed success How do you define mixed success? It has been a more spectacular failure than the Ukranian summer counter offensive