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Yes, and it creates huge problems for the whole world when an arbitrary multi-billion dollar organisation can "impose rules on content moderation" and "privacy"

Yes, and it creates huge problems for the whole world when an arbitrary multi-billion dollar organisation can "impose rules on content moderation" and "privacy" with zero accountability while skirting local laws. Non-american countries should form a bloc and force them to be reasonable.

throwawa14223 3y ago
The US should start economic sanctions against the EU if they're going to act like a fascist police state.
- xvector 3y ago
  We absolutely need to sanction this clusterfuck of an economic bloc. The EU contributes nothing to consumer technology (outside of ASML) and yet seeks rent on American companies.
nvm0n2 3y ago
The tech companies are much more accountable than the EU. You can just not use Twitter. Nothing bad will happen to you. Good luck trying to just "not use" the EU if you happen to live there. That's much easier said than done.
- dotandgtfo 3y ago
  Yes I concur /s. Don't use Google search. Don't use websites with Google Analytics. Don't use websites with Google Ads conversion tracking. Don't use Android phones. Don't send SMSes to android phones. Don't use YouTube. Don't use websites that embed YouTube. Don't use Chrome. Don't use gmail. Don't send email to gmail addresses. Oh yes, and I also don't use news media sites who monetise through Google adsense either. Yes, I agree that the first DSA investigation targeting X obviously has more of a populistic bent due to Elon. But he's drawn a pretty good target on his own back including but not limited to firing the election integrity team [1] while the DSA clearly states that VLOPs have to do risk assessments before elections. Honestly, American big tech has shown close to zero ability to self-regulate the externalities of their platforms, especially abroad, and especially in smaller countries. If the consequence of this regulation is that American tech companies pull out of hard to serve European markets I wouldn't mind that one bit. That would open up markets for local competition closer aligned to their audience. Norway doesn't use Meta as the dominant messaging app because people like it. We use it because network effects creates unassailable moats, lock-in and network effects. Most people absolutely hate Meta and loathe Google - but we can't exactly not use them without it costing us greatly. I'm happy to live here and the actions being done by the EU with GDPR, DSA and DMA are in my honest opinion critically needed as American-centric, free-market, "free-speech" norms are misaligned with other cultures in a way that foreigners would never understand without delving deep into a countries culture. Not just through naive metrics-driven technology scaling engagement at all costs. This is warping and killing culture, media environments, advertising ecosystems and political communication in the name of profit for a select few massive tech companies which aren't even taxing to the countries they're siphoning advertising budgets out of. X is nothing special. The only reason there isn't another Twitter is because these markets mostly have room for one platform. If Twitter disappeared in Europe there'd be a local replacement in less than a year or two. And honestly it would probably be better. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/28/elon-musk-ditches-x-twitter-election-integrity-team-key-votes-disinformation https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/28/elon-musk...
  - Nasrudith 3y ago
    "Regulate the externalities of their platform" is so weasel worded that it has broken into a henhouse. That just means "Unable to stop literally anything bad from happening as a side effect of their actions." Which if we are being remotely intellectually honest is an impossible hurdle.
    - dotandgtfo 3y ago
      > Unable to stop literally anything bad from happening as a side effect of their actions That's neither what I said nor the stated goal of this regulation. Theres tons of externalities ranging from increased political polarisation, mental health issues, increasing social isolation to the decimation of the traditional publishing sector. These socio-technical systems are some of the most complex ever built and we are barely scratching the surface of the challenges they are causing. It doesn't help that these platforms actively stop the collection of data on their platforms for research purposes (as they probably know it'll reflect poorly on them). The platforms themselves have identified their content as a legitimate existential risk. Mostly due to how advertisers don't want to be affiliated with certain types of content. See the multiple rounds of demonitizations done by Google in the adpocalypse or Elsagate. Or Meta's crackdown on content post 2016/Brexit. Or Elon's current YOLO which has killed their advertising revenue. The current status quo is that platforms govern their platform content through advertisers threatening to pull advertising budgets. I'd say you Americans are mildly crazy for regulating the reach of speech through informal negotiations by big advertisers and big tech, but it does sound on-brand for you guys. I find it pretty disgusting though, and I bet a lot of you Americans do too. Anyways, the DSA in it's current form is largely revolves around increased transparency into data for researchers and mandated reporting processes around moderation decisions. More informed decision making can be made in the future while not relying exclusively on leaked documents from whistleblowers like Frances Haugen.
      - xvector 3y ago
        The EU's attempts to regulate these externalities impose literally impossible burdens on American tech companies. And similar attempts to do so with the AI Act are impossibly flawed and technically impractical. Conditionals keep on being added and added. Do you know that Meta, Google, etc have to hire literally tens of thousands of people exclusively to keep up with EU regulations? And even then, it's not even possible, so the EU tosses massive fines (up to 20% of global revenue.) This is rent-seeking no matter how you cut it. Perhaps if the EU had the barest shred of competency in developing modern consumer technology, it would understand. But wildly, regulators doggedly proceed ahead with simply absurd asks, not realizing that the EU tech industry is well and truly dead because of their actions. Let's not let them do the same to American tech.

throwawa14223 3y ago

The US should start economic sanctions against the EU if they're going to act like a fascist police state.

xvector 3y ago
We absolutely need to sanction this clusterfuck of an economic bloc. The EU contributes nothing to consumer technology (outside of ASML) and yet seeks rent on American companies.

nvm0n2 3y ago

The tech companies are much more accountable than the EU. You can just not use Twitter. Nothing bad will happen to you. Good luck trying to just "not use" the EU if you happen to live there. That's much easier said than done.

dotandgtfo 3y ago
Yes I concur /s. Don't use Google search. Don't use websites with Google Analytics. Don't use websites with Google Ads conversion tracking. Don't use Android phones. Don't send SMSes to android phones. Don't use YouTube. Don't use websites that embed YouTube. Don't use Chrome. Don't use gmail. Don't send email to gmail addresses. Oh yes, and I also don't use news media sites who monetise through Google adsense either. Yes, I agree that the first DSA investigation targeting X obviously has more of a populistic bent due to Elon. But he's drawn a pretty good target on his own back including but not limited to firing the election integrity team [1] while the DSA clearly states that VLOPs have to do risk assessments before elections. Honestly, American big tech has shown close to zero ability to self-regulate the externalities of their platforms, especially abroad, and especially in smaller countries. If the consequence of this regulation is that American tech companies pull out of hard to serve European markets I wouldn't mind that one bit. That would open up markets for local competition closer aligned to their audience. Norway doesn't use Meta as the dominant messaging app because people like it. We use it because network effects creates unassailable moats, lock-in and network effects. Most people absolutely hate Meta and loathe Google - but we can't exactly not use them without it costing us greatly. I'm happy to live here and the actions being done by the EU with GDPR, DSA and DMA are in my honest opinion critically needed as American-centric, free-market, "free-speech" norms are misaligned with other cultures in a way that foreigners would never understand without delving deep into a countries culture. Not just through naive metrics-driven technology scaling engagement at all costs. This is warping and killing culture, media environments, advertising ecosystems and political communication in the name of profit for a select few massive tech companies which aren't even taxing to the countries they're siphoning advertising budgets out of. X is nothing special. The only reason there isn't another Twitter is because these markets mostly have room for one platform. If Twitter disappeared in Europe there'd be a local replacement in less than a year or two. And honestly it would probably be better. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/28/elon-musk-ditches-x-twitter-election-integrity-team-key-votes-disinformation https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/sep/28/elon-musk...
- Nasrudith 3y ago
  "Regulate the externalities of their platform" is so weasel worded that it has broken into a henhouse. That just means "Unable to stop literally anything bad from happening as a side effect of their actions." Which if we are being remotely intellectually honest is an impossible hurdle.
  - dotandgtfo 3y ago
    > Unable to stop literally anything bad from happening as a side effect of their actions That's neither what I said nor the stated goal of this regulation. Theres tons of externalities ranging from increased political polarisation, mental health issues, increasing social isolation to the decimation of the traditional publishing sector. These socio-technical systems are some of the most complex ever built and we are barely scratching the surface of the challenges they are causing. It doesn't help that these platforms actively stop the collection of data on their platforms for research purposes (as they probably know it'll reflect poorly on them). The platforms themselves have identified their content as a legitimate existential risk. Mostly due to how advertisers don't want to be affiliated with certain types of content. See the multiple rounds of demonitizations done by Google in the adpocalypse or Elsagate. Or Meta's crackdown on content post 2016/Brexit. Or Elon's current YOLO which has killed their advertising revenue. The current status quo is that platforms govern their platform content through advertisers threatening to pull advertising budgets. I'd say you Americans are mildly crazy for regulating the reach of speech through informal negotiations by big advertisers and big tech, but it does sound on-brand for you guys. I find it pretty disgusting though, and I bet a lot of you Americans do too. Anyways, the DSA in it's current form is largely revolves around increased transparency into data for researchers and mandated reporting processes around moderation decisions. More informed decision making can be made in the future while not relying exclusively on leaked documents from whistleblowers like Frances Haugen.
    - xvector 3y ago
      The EU's attempts to regulate these externalities impose literally impossible burdens on American tech companies. And similar attempts to do so with the AI Act are impossibly flawed and technically impractical. Conditionals keep on being added and added. Do you know that Meta, Google, etc have to hire literally tens of thousands of people exclusively to keep up with EU regulations? And even then, it's not even possible, so the EU tosses massive fines (up to 20% of global revenue.) This is rent-seeking no matter how you cut it. Perhaps if the EU had the barest shred of competency in developing modern consumer technology, it would understand. But wildly, regulators doggedly proceed ahead with simply absurd asks, not realizing that the EU tech industry is well and truly dead because of their actions. Let's not let them do the same to American tech.