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Got bit by this. It felt absolutely horrible to not have any recourse. We had a yearly adobe sign contract, it was based on a particular usage estimate and quit

Got bit by this. It felt absolutely horrible to not have any recourse. We had a yearly adobe sign contract, it was based on a particular usage estimate and quite high. Called in weeks before the renewal and they said we missed the window to cancel. There was no option out of it. No escalation. Had to stomach a massive bill for of a product we weren't going to use.

GoRudy 3y ago
Is not paying an option? Ran into this issue with a large software provider once but they had some actual account management negligence / weren't responsive so we used that to hang our hat on not paying and eventually they let it go.
- jdewerd 3y ago
  No, because contract law is built for centuries past and lets Adobe screw you for trying this. Not sure if they do, but they definitely could. Back when communication latency was days or weeks, allowing sticky auto-renew that ignored payment failure and asked for a lot of heads up time on a cancellation made sense. It was exploitable, but it was worth it to buffer the latency. Now we don't have the latency, so it's just exploitable, the law hasn't caught up yet, and Adobe is happy to exercise this advantage against you.
  - nightski 3y ago
    I'm curious, what exactly are the ramifications of this "contract law" in the context of Adobe subscriptions? Adobe will sue you? Are they suing large amounts of customers?
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      They'll send you to collections, which'll ruin your credit.
      - xyzzy4747 3y ago
        How does that work? I don’t think Adobe has your social security number.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        You don't need someone's social security number to send them to collections.
        xyzzy4747 3y ago
        How does it affect your credit score then?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The information you provide with payment - name and address - is sufficient to add a delinquent account to your credit report, which will immediately tank it. Again, SSN is not necessary for this.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - SnowingXIV 3y ago
        The risk-reward here is out of balance for SMB, so while we could just not pay it was more headache not to. Here is hoping for some class action. Perhaps small claims but its pretty frustrating that a company as large as Adobe has this in place.
      - nightski 3y ago
        Does it though? I thought only credit accounts affected your credit score. This really isn't that...
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        Gym memberships, cell phone plans, utility bills, unpaid parking tickets, etc. will all report to your credit report if you miss payments. Debt, not just credit cards. A delinquent account on your account will drop it by 100-150 points immediately.
jan_Inkepa 3y ago
Also that their cancellation window has limits on both sides - I told them more than six months I advance to cancel my renewal and the refused and toll me to call up again in a particular 30 day period close to the expiry date...
- _fat_santa 3y ago
  When your business has to depend on subscription engineering like this, it means the underlying product is not good enough to stand on it's own feet.
  - figassis 3y ago
    It probably is, but rent seeking has no limits.
  - i_am_jl 3y ago
    That's the worst part, the products are great. $20/month is reasonable for PS/LR considering that yearly releases were retailing for $500+ in the CS6 era. Cloud storage and generative AI credits are rolled into those costs. New features are showing up again. Regarding Photoshop, there are no real alternatives. It's not that Adobe's depending on subscription engineering, it's creative pros 100% dependent on Adobe products being willing to put up with this shit because they have quality products with no alternatives.
    - Spooky23 3y ago
      Exactly. The downside of subscription software is that companies like Adobe become life insurance companies that produce software. Their enterprise value is defined by churn rates and there's a strong incentive to lock customers down to reduce that risk. I work for a huge org, and we tell companies like this to go fuck off with terms like this. The real scam of Adobe is that there is no way to assess engagement rates with their tools. The only way to get this data is by metering PCs or datamining your IdP.
    - jb1991 3y ago
      > Regarding Photoshop, there are no real alternatives. Unfortunately, the same is true for Illustrator. There are competitors that have 95% of the features, but that remaining 5% is critical for serious professionals.
xyzzy4747 3y ago
Have you tried not paying?
JCM9 3y ago
Many states are cracking down on these practices and no longer consider “sorry you forgot to cancel” as a legal agreement binding you to a renewal. Common sense says you should have to consciously renew vs accidentally doing so via some bogus contract clause. Of course if you’re relying on such gotchas to keep subscription numbers up you’ve already failed and are just on a slow march to irrelevance while leaving pain and destruction in your wake.
foz 3y ago
One of the key functions of procurement: Checking for automatic renewal clauses in contracts and removing them when found. This is a red flag in many companies.

GoRudy 3y ago

Is not paying an option? Ran into this issue with a large software provider once but they had some actual account management negligence / weren't responsive so we used that to hang our hat on not paying and eventually they let it go.

jdewerd 3y ago
No, because contract law is built for centuries past and lets Adobe screw you for trying this. Not sure if they do, but they definitely could. Back when communication latency was days or weeks, allowing sticky auto-renew that ignored payment failure and asked for a lot of heads up time on a cancellation made sense. It was exploitable, but it was worth it to buffer the latency. Now we don't have the latency, so it's just exploitable, the law hasn't caught up yet, and Adobe is happy to exercise this advantage against you.
- nightski 3y ago
  I'm curious, what exactly are the ramifications of this "contract law" in the context of Adobe subscriptions? Adobe will sue you? Are they suing large amounts of customers?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    They'll send you to collections, which'll ruin your credit.
    - xyzzy4747 3y ago
      How does that work? I don’t think Adobe has your social security number.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        You don't need someone's social security number to send them to collections.
        xyzzy4747 3y ago
        How does it affect your credit score then?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The information you provide with payment - name and address - is sufficient to add a delinquent account to your credit report, which will immediately tank it. Again, SSN is not necessary for this.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - SnowingXIV 3y ago
      The risk-reward here is out of balance for SMB, so while we could just not pay it was more headache not to. Here is hoping for some class action. Perhaps small claims but its pretty frustrating that a company as large as Adobe has this in place.
    - nightski 3y ago
      Does it though? I thought only credit accounts affected your credit score. This really isn't that...
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        Gym memberships, cell phone plans, utility bills, unpaid parking tickets, etc. will all report to your credit report if you miss payments. Debt, not just credit cards. A delinquent account on your account will drop it by 100-150 points immediately.

jan_Inkepa 3y ago

Also that their cancellation window has limits on both sides - I told them more than six months I advance to cancel my renewal and the refused and toll me to call up again in a particular 30 day period close to the expiry date...

_fat_santa 3y ago
When your business has to depend on subscription engineering like this, it means the underlying product is not good enough to stand on it's own feet.
- figassis 3y ago
  It probably is, but rent seeking has no limits.
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  That's the worst part, the products are great. $20/month is reasonable for PS/LR considering that yearly releases were retailing for $500+ in the CS6 era. Cloud storage and generative AI credits are rolled into those costs. New features are showing up again. Regarding Photoshop, there are no real alternatives. It's not that Adobe's depending on subscription engineering, it's creative pros 100% dependent on Adobe products being willing to put up with this shit because they have quality products with no alternatives.
  - Spooky23 3y ago
    Exactly. The downside of subscription software is that companies like Adobe become life insurance companies that produce software. Their enterprise value is defined by churn rates and there's a strong incentive to lock customers down to reduce that risk. I work for a huge org, and we tell companies like this to go fuck off with terms like this. The real scam of Adobe is that there is no way to assess engagement rates with their tools. The only way to get this data is by metering PCs or datamining your IdP.
  - jb1991 3y ago
    > Regarding Photoshop, there are no real alternatives. Unfortunately, the same is true for Illustrator. There are competitors that have 95% of the features, but that remaining 5% is critical for serious professionals.

xyzzy4747 3y ago

Have you tried not paying?

JCM9 3y ago

Many states are cracking down on these practices and no longer consider “sorry you forgot to cancel” as a legal agreement binding you to a renewal. Common sense says you should have to consciously renew vs accidentally doing so via some bogus contract clause. Of course if you’re relying on such gotchas to keep subscription numbers up you’ve already failed and are just on a slow march to irrelevance while leaving pain and destruction in your wake.

foz 3y ago

One of the key functions of procurement: Checking for automatic renewal clauses in contracts and removing them when found. This is a red flag in many companies.