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This is so far from outlawing. And we are soooooo far from having a shortage of tech startups.

robertlagrant 3y ago
> This is so far from outlawing It's not that far. A bureaucrat will decide if you can exit the way you want to. Still want to fund this venture? > And we are soooooo far from having a shortage of tech startups. Because there hasn't been a fear of them blocking exits.
- airstrike 3y ago
  > A bureaucrat will decide if you can exit the way you want to. It's not up to the bureaucrat but to the courts. The FTC doesn't "approve" or "reject" deals--it can just take legal action to try to stop a deal, but that still gets adjudicated either in a federal court or in an FTC administrative law court to a judge which is appointed independently. https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/merger-review https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/merger-review https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/administrative-law-judge-system https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/administrative-law-...
  - matthewowen 3y ago
    True in the US, not true in the UK or EU.
    - airstrike 3y ago
      Fair, I'm not as familiar with the UK/EU regulatory environment
      - junofan 3y ago
        That’s who’s blocking the sale according to Adobe’s press release: https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2023/Adobe-and-Figma-Mutually-Agree-to-Terminate-Merger-Agreement/default.aspx https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2023/Adobe-and-Figm... Depending on specifics, the EU stopping blockbuster acquisitions in the US startup ecosystem feels ripe for abuse.
        airstrike 3y ago
        I can assure you the EU isn't blocking this to prevent US founders from making money
  - evrydayhustling 3y ago
    Adding a legal battle with the FTC to the cost of any acquisition can chill and kill otherwise obvious deals, and or sap value out of those that push through. FWIW, I think there are good reasons to limit tech consolidation, including this one. But anyone should realize that it will reshape the industry in unpredictable ways, including some that harm "real" consumers and builders.
    - airstrike 3y ago
      But anti-trust isn't being invented now. It's always existed. Companies already factor in anti-trust risk when doing M&A—it's just hard to quantify the expected value of that risk If anything, IMHO, we've been too lenient with anti-trust in Tech in particular over the past 5-10 years. This just dials things back a little, and makes it so that "hard to quantify" risk is a little more likely than it was before, and certainly a little more likely than zero I don't think Adobe / Figma specifically is an "otherwise obvious deal" precisely because it has such obvious anti-trust risk. The fact that this merger was even announced is all the proof I need that we were being too lenient. Figma can still sell to any number of huge Tech companies
      - junofan 3y ago
        Published guidance is the correct tool. Blocking acquisitions doesn’t really decrease uncertainty.
        airstrike 3y ago
        The guidance already exists. Don't buy your biggest competitor, unless you're but one player in a diversified sector. Blocking acquisitions creates precedents.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Adobe will be fine; this might wreck its biggest competitor.
    - 3y ago
- passwordoops 3y ago
  Or, and this is a crazy idea I know, maybe start a company with the notion that it will be a profitable, long-term success instead of a lottery ticket
- Drakim 3y ago
  A bureaucrat also decides the amount of lead you can put in your product and sell. In fact, there are all kinds of things you can't arbitrarily do because it hurts consumers, both physically and financially. This includes strengthening industry monopolies which has time and time again demonstrated that it causes incredible harm to entire segments of society.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    > This includes strengthening industry monopolies which has time and time again demonstrated that it causes incredible harm to entire segments of society I don't think you can take a hypothetical worst case and make it apply here. You could also say that we shouldn't have governments, because look at WW2 and all the war they declared. Adobe buying Figma wouldn't cause incredible harm to entire segments of society. It's barely even a monopoly, in that Adobe doesn't really do what Figma does already, and there is incredible potential in just making another Figma competitor if Adobe ruins Figma.
- zztop44 3y ago
  I’m pretty sure no VCs are kicking themselves for having invested in Figma.

> This is so far from outlawing It's not that far. A bureaucrat will decide if you can exit the way you want to. Still want to fund this venture? > And we are soooooo far from having a shortage of tech startups. Because there hasn't been a fear of them blocking exits.

airstrike 3y ago
> A bureaucrat will decide if you can exit the way you want to. It's not up to the bureaucrat but to the courts. The FTC doesn't "approve" or "reject" deals--it can just take legal action to try to stop a deal, but that still gets adjudicated either in a federal court or in an FTC administrative law court to a judge which is appointed independently. https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/merger-review https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/merger-review https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/administrative-law-judge-system https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/administrative-law-...
- matthewowen 3y ago
  True in the US, not true in the UK or EU.
  - airstrike 3y ago
    Fair, I'm not as familiar with the UK/EU regulatory environment
    - junofan 3y ago
      That’s who’s blocking the sale according to Adobe’s press release: https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2023/Adobe-and-Figma-Mutually-Agree-to-Terminate-Merger-Agreement/default.aspx https://news.adobe.com/news/news-details/2023/Adobe-and-Figm... Depending on specifics, the EU stopping blockbuster acquisitions in the US startup ecosystem feels ripe for abuse.
      - airstrike 3y ago
        I can assure you the EU isn't blocking this to prevent US founders from making money
- evrydayhustling 3y ago
  Adding a legal battle with the FTC to the cost of any acquisition can chill and kill otherwise obvious deals, and or sap value out of those that push through. FWIW, I think there are good reasons to limit tech consolidation, including this one. But anyone should realize that it will reshape the industry in unpredictable ways, including some that harm "real" consumers and builders.
  - airstrike 3y ago
    But anti-trust isn't being invented now. It's always existed. Companies already factor in anti-trust risk when doing M&A—it's just hard to quantify the expected value of that risk If anything, IMHO, we've been too lenient with anti-trust in Tech in particular over the past 5-10 years. This just dials things back a little, and makes it so that "hard to quantify" risk is a little more likely than it was before, and certainly a little more likely than zero I don't think Adobe / Figma specifically is an "otherwise obvious deal" precisely because it has such obvious anti-trust risk. The fact that this merger was even announced is all the proof I need that we were being too lenient. Figma can still sell to any number of huge Tech companies
    - junofan 3y ago
      Published guidance is the correct tool. Blocking acquisitions doesn’t really decrease uncertainty.
      - airstrike 3y ago
        The guidance already exists. Don't buy your biggest competitor, unless you're but one player in a diversified sector. Blocking acquisitions creates precedents.
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        Adobe will be fine; this might wreck its biggest competitor.
  - 3y ago
passwordoops 3y ago
Or, and this is a crazy idea I know, maybe start a company with the notion that it will be a profitable, long-term success instead of a lottery ticket
Drakim 3y ago
A bureaucrat also decides the amount of lead you can put in your product and sell. In fact, there are all kinds of things you can't arbitrarily do because it hurts consumers, both physically and financially. This includes strengthening industry monopolies which has time and time again demonstrated that it causes incredible harm to entire segments of society.
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  > This includes strengthening industry monopolies which has time and time again demonstrated that it causes incredible harm to entire segments of society I don't think you can take a hypothetical worst case and make it apply here. You could also say that we shouldn't have governments, because look at WW2 and all the war they declared. Adobe buying Figma wouldn't cause incredible harm to entire segments of society. It's barely even a monopoly, in that Adobe doesn't really do what Figma does already, and there is incredible potential in just making another Figma competitor if Adobe ruins Figma.
zztop44 3y ago
I’m pretty sure no VCs are kicking themselves for having invested in Figma.