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"Europe 2.0" aka "the usa" has a better free speech implementation than "Europe 1.0". So yes different as in bad.
by focom 3y ago
"Europe 2.0" aka "the usa" has a better free speech implementation than "Europe 1.0". So yes different as in bad.
- RandomLensman 3y agoWhat's your evidence for the assessment?
- pjc50 3y agoThe European free speech legal infrastructure dates from the ECHR in 1950, and was somewhat imposed by the Allies after the war. As well as a lot of people who wanted to avoid having populist incitement to genocide again.
- RandomLensman 3y agoThe limits on free speech in European countries are also much older in parts. The history in Europe on that topic is just very different from the US, I'd say.
- pjc50 3y agoIndeed. People forget that e.g. Portugal, Greece, and Spain were dictatorships until the 70s, and that a lot of eastern EU was under Communism until 1990s. "The EU" is not equivalent to "France and Germany", despite what they think.
- DoughnutHole 3y agoThe speech culture of France and Germany is very different to the US as well, it's not just the dictatorships of the recent past. Nazism as an ideology is illegal to promote in Germany. Use of Nazi symbols outside of an artistic or educational context is illegal in Germany and France (most European countries really). Several neo-nazi, neo-fascist, and communist parties have been banned since the founding of the modern German state. Far-right parties in Germany are always walking a fine line - if their membership flirts too much with nazism or fascism they are very much liable to be banned. Several European countries with strong democratic traditions in the modern era remain very wary of extreme ideologies. Their proponents murdered millions and burned the continent to the ground less than a century ago. Most people are comfortable with the state killing these movements in their infancy.
- timeon 3y agoUSA is no Europe nor Rome. "free speech" is vague term.
- jltsiren 3y agoI'm not sure the US approach to free speech works that well in practice. Political polarization has become worse in the US than in most other developed countries, and that looks like a consequence of free speech. When you value free speech far above social harmony, you give a lot of power to extremists of all kinds.
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoIt is better to go through a phase like this than live in a country where you're not allowed to speak freely. This is the cost of being free, not everyone likes it, but it way better than the alternative.
- RandomLensman 3y agoOn what basis are the US limits to speech better than the European ones? The US is arguably a more violent society now - is that the better part? The GDP per capita being higher? The trade-off between the two?
- ExoticPearTree 3y agoOn the fact that you're investigated because you hold certain beliefs or say something that the party currently holding power doesn't like. I don't think it is a more violent society. Maybe in the discourse, but not in actual crime. And yes, people are more polarized, but I think it is tied more to the economic context than anything else.
- RandomLensman 3y agoHave you looked at homicide figures, for example? Europe around 3 per 100k (EU below 2), US above 6. The party thing was in the Eastern bloc, not sure where that is now the case.
- ExoticPearTree 3y ago