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They're more expensive than a new gas boiler, more expensive to run than gas heating (due to low gas prices), they often need upgrades to the entire home heatin

They're more expensive than a new gas boiler, more expensive to run than gas heating (due to low gas prices), they often need upgrades to the entire home heating system and there's a cost of living crisis across Europe. It's not really a surprise.

immibis 3y ago
Are low gas prices due to subsidized gas? They were supposed to be very high due to the German-corruption-made dependence on Russian gas, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
- dagw 3y ago
  It's not subsidies, gas prices are down to pre-invasion levels. Lots of changes were implemented to reduce overall gas demand, plus all governments build up their gas reserves so to avoid local energy shocks. Countries also set up alternate sources of gas. This all combined to push down gas prices.
  - teamonkey 3y ago
    I wouldn't say they were down to pre-invasion levels. I'm paying 2x for power what I paid 3 years ago. That is, however, much better than last year.
    - dagw 3y ago
      Technically they are just about down to pre-invasion levels, but not year-before-invasion levels.
      - The_Colonel 3y ago
        Yes, Russia started to reduce supply in the autumn 2021 to build leverage during invasion.
- teamonkey 3y ago
  The UK sources most of its gas from the North Sea, not Russia, and that's become cheaper now that there's less of a demand for it from mainland Europe (for many reasons). Also, though gas is cheaper, power is 2x the price it was 3 years ago and more expensive than much of mainland Europe. Still, relative to electricity, the cost per kWh of gas remains very cheap.
- holgerschurig 3y ago
  > due to the German-corruption-made dependence on Russian gas You have a source for this? Corruption is a criminal offence under both german and EU laws. So if there was corruption ... where are the court cases, where are the convictions? Who went to jail? Did anyone even TRY to bring someone to court for this? There was a time when most germans had oil central heating. And then, since about 1980, this gradually changed. People installed gas central heating more and more --- not caring at all if the gas came from the Netherlands, Norway or Russia. One normally didn't knew. But why did they do that? - the central heating device was cheaper - the central heating device was more efficient (especiall the "Brennwertkessel") - you didn't need a stinking oil tank in your basement, so yay, one more cellar room! On top of this, a lot of eastern european country dependend WAY more on russian fossil fuels than Germany, like Rumania, Bulgaria, Hungary (that one even today!). That only Germany is singled out is probably a result of very succesful polish PiS propaganda. And the tendency of people to believe things that sound okay, without actual research. Just look at a map of eastern european pipelines. You might know "North Stream" becuase of propaganda. But notice that there is a maendering of 15 other pipelines visiting all eastern and southern european countries? You never hear about the others ... why? Here's a list of all of them: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Erdgaspipelines#Europa https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Erdgaspipelines#Euro... --- and that JUST gas. Not even oil. And it doesn't also cover coal (where Poland made itself dependent on Russia).
  - IsTom 3y ago
    Schröder working in Rosneft and Gazprom is certainly just a coincidence.
theshrike79 3y ago
Only if you're living in a country that has gas infrastructure. Nordics don't use gas for non-industrial purposes at all, and even industrial ones are rare now that the Russian pipelines are shut down.

immibis 3y ago

Are low gas prices due to subsidized gas? They were supposed to be very high due to the German-corruption-made dependence on Russian gas, and Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

dagw 3y ago
It's not subsidies, gas prices are down to pre-invasion levels. Lots of changes were implemented to reduce overall gas demand, plus all governments build up their gas reserves so to avoid local energy shocks. Countries also set up alternate sources of gas. This all combined to push down gas prices.
- teamonkey 3y ago
  I wouldn't say they were down to pre-invasion levels. I'm paying 2x for power what I paid 3 years ago. That is, however, much better than last year.
  - dagw 3y ago
    Technically they are just about down to pre-invasion levels, but not year-before-invasion levels.
    - The_Colonel 3y ago
      Yes, Russia started to reduce supply in the autumn 2021 to build leverage during invasion.
teamonkey 3y ago
The UK sources most of its gas from the North Sea, not Russia, and that's become cheaper now that there's less of a demand for it from mainland Europe (for many reasons). Also, though gas is cheaper, power is 2x the price it was 3 years ago and more expensive than much of mainland Europe. Still, relative to electricity, the cost per kWh of gas remains very cheap.
holgerschurig 3y ago
> due to the German-corruption-made dependence on Russian gas You have a source for this? Corruption is a criminal offence under both german and EU laws. So if there was corruption ... where are the court cases, where are the convictions? Who went to jail? Did anyone even TRY to bring someone to court for this? There was a time when most germans had oil central heating. And then, since about 1980, this gradually changed. People installed gas central heating more and more --- not caring at all if the gas came from the Netherlands, Norway or Russia. One normally didn't knew. But why did they do that? - the central heating device was cheaper - the central heating device was more efficient (especiall the "Brennwertkessel") - you didn't need a stinking oil tank in your basement, so yay, one more cellar room! On top of this, a lot of eastern european country dependend WAY more on russian fossil fuels than Germany, like Rumania, Bulgaria, Hungary (that one even today!). That only Germany is singled out is probably a result of very succesful polish PiS propaganda. And the tendency of people to believe things that sound okay, without actual research. Just look at a map of eastern european pipelines. You might know "North Stream" becuase of propaganda. But notice that there is a maendering of 15 other pipelines visiting all eastern and southern european countries? You never hear about the others ... why? Here's a list of all of them: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Erdgaspipelines#Europa https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Erdgaspipelines#Euro... --- and that JUST gas. Not even oil. And it doesn't also cover coal (where Poland made itself dependent on Russia).
- IsTom 3y ago
  Schröder working in Rosneft and Gazprom is certainly just a coincidence.

theshrike79 3y ago

Only if you're living in a country that has gas infrastructure. Nordics don't use gas for non-industrial purposes at all, and even industrial ones are rare now that the Russian pipelines are shut down.