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This brings back distant memories for me: ages ago, just for fun, I wrote a quick-and-dirty PacMan clone for the TRS-80 Color Computer, which was powered by a l

by cs702 15y ago

This brings back distant memories for me: ages ago, just for fun, I wrote a quick-and-dirty PacMan clone for the TRS-80 Color Computer, which was powered by a lousy-by-present-standards Motorola 6809 processor. I have to agree with some of the other comments here, 0x10c looks to be some sort of milestone: a fully programmable, Turing-complete game!

protomyth 15y ago
The 6809 was one of the nicer processors back in the day. I still wish it and its successors had won over 8080 and is follow ons.
- cs702 15y ago
  Yeah, it was nice. OS-9 was pretty nice too.
  - protomyth 15y ago
    I have heard that although I never used OS-9. I programmed a 6809E on a development board in college after having learned 6502 assembly in high school. Liked it a lot better than the 8086/8 assembly I took the semester afterwords.
    - cs702 15y ago
      I remember OS-9 as being very unixy and much more powerful than the single-user, non-multitasking, 'toy' desktop operating systems of the day -- like, say, CP/M or the Apple II's OS. It meant that one could have a powerful, multi-tasking, multi-user system just by installing OS-9 on a cheap TRS-80 CoCo (typically hooked up to a home TV). It felt like a great deal at the time. As to x86 assembly language, I've had almost no exposure to it, so I can't really judge it.
Natsu 15y ago
Minecraft is Turing-complete too. You just have to build your own CPU and there's no way you're going to get 100 kHz out of it. Heck, so is Dwarf Fortress. People have built CPUs in both. Personally, I say the difference is that Notch makes meta-games. That is, he makes game worlds in which people create their own games.
- cs702 15y ago
  You are absolutely right -- in the sense that even a dead-simple Turing machine built inside one of those other games is Turing complete too. 0x10c feels like a milestone, though... I guess it's because the in-game CPU this time around is usable on a human timescale. If in-game networking is ever added to 0x10c, one could even imagine a usable minecraft clone inside the game. It feels different this time.
  - Natsu 15y ago
    Yes, I think it's an important milestone in terms of making that sort of mechanic more available to everyone. Most people were building small, special purpose circuits instead of general purpose devices, simply because it was difficult and wasteful to build your own CPU... unless that was their goal in the first place. I agree that 0x10^c will likely be something special.
tikhonj 15y ago
You don't even have to be a computer game to be Turing complete :P. You can actually simulate a TM in Magic[1] (a card game). Looke at [1]: http://draw3cards.com/questions/2851/is-magic-turing-complete/3225#3225 http://draw3cards.com/questions/2851/is-magic-turing-complet...

by cs702 15y ago

protomyth 15y ago

The 6809 was one of the nicer processors back in the day. I still wish it and its successors had won over 8080 and is follow ons.

cs702 15y ago
Yeah, it was nice. OS-9 was pretty nice too.
- protomyth 15y ago
  I have heard that although I never used OS-9. I programmed a 6809E on a development board in college after having learned 6502 assembly in high school. Liked it a lot better than the 8086/8 assembly I took the semester afterwords.
  - cs702 15y ago
    I remember OS-9 as being very unixy and much more powerful than the single-user, non-multitasking, 'toy' desktop operating systems of the day -- like, say, CP/M or the Apple II's OS. It meant that one could have a powerful, multi-tasking, multi-user system just by installing OS-9 on a cheap TRS-80 CoCo (typically hooked up to a home TV). It felt like a great deal at the time. As to x86 assembly language, I've had almost no exposure to it, so I can't really judge it.

Natsu 15y ago

Minecraft is Turing-complete too. You just have to build your own CPU and there's no way you're going to get 100 kHz out of it. Heck, so is Dwarf Fortress. People have built CPUs in both. Personally, I say the difference is that Notch makes meta-games. That is, he makes game worlds in which people create their own games.

cs702 15y ago
You are absolutely right -- in the sense that even a dead-simple Turing machine built inside one of those other games is Turing complete too. 0x10c feels like a milestone, though... I guess it's because the in-game CPU this time around is usable on a human timescale. If in-game networking is ever added to 0x10c, one could even imagine a usable minecraft clone inside the game. It feels different this time.
- Natsu 15y ago
  Yes, I think it's an important milestone in terms of making that sort of mechanic more available to everyone. Most people were building small, special purpose circuits instead of general purpose devices, simply because it was difficult and wasteful to build your own CPU... unless that was their goal in the first place. I agree that 0x10^c will likely be something special.

tikhonj 15y ago

You don't even have to be a computer game to be Turing complete :P. You can actually simulate a TM in Magic[1] (a card game). Looke at [1]: http://draw3cards.com/questions/2851/is-magic-turing-complete/3225#3225 http://draw3cards.com/questions/2851/is-magic-turing-complet...