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A completely natural and expected outcome. “Hey, you feeling depressed? Let’s take your livelihood away if you dare seek help.” I don’t have a better solution,

A completely natural and expected outcome. “Hey, you feeling depressed? Let’s take your livelihood away if you dare seek help.” I don’t have a better solution, but I also don’t really think it’s a big problem to begin with. The vast, vast majority of suicidal people still won’t take hundreds of others with them. They jump off buildings or shoot themselves or swallow a fistful of pills. If I was a pilot, you bet your ass I’m going to hide any mental struggles I’m having from the FAA. Now, I suppose if I had persistent and intrusive thoughts of darting my plane into a mountainside, I’d hopefully—during a moment of clarity—remove myself from any position that would enable me to carry that out. But for “run-of-the-mill” depression? That’s my business. I can still perform the job. How many pilots have intentionally crashed their planes for mental health reasons? The only one that comes to mind is that Germanwings pilot a few years ago. (EDIT: Apologies if the article answers this. I can’t see behind the paywall)

greyface- 3y ago
> How many pilots have intentionally crashed their planes for mental health reasons? The only one that comes to mind is that Germanwings pilot a few years ago. This one comes to mind for me, although not technically a pilot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Horizon_Air_Q400_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Horizon_Air_Q400_incident
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  An Alaska mechanic stole a small jet and intentionally crashed it and killed himself.
kingTug 3y ago
Agree with the sentiment (and have no better solutions either) but the lesser symptoms of clinical depression like insomnia, inability to focus, etc. are probably the more pressing concerns.
- function_seven 3y ago
  Good point. I went straight to the most sensational way it could manifest. And, yeah, still can’t think of a good solution.
computerfriend 3y ago
China Eastern 5735 is another recent one.
FL410 3y ago
It’s not just about hiding the problem from the FAA, it’s about a pervasive fear of getting help due to losing their livelihood. There are tons of really common reasons for wanting some mental health guidance (loss in the family, career stress, martial, whatever). Imagine having to choose between letting a relatively normal and treatable issue fester, or getting help but potentially losing your 20+ year career. It’s a shit situation and for all the FAA’s gyrations about mental health, this is fully their problem and they should be positively ashamed with their lack of reform.
jancsika 3y ago
> If I was a pilot, you bet your ass I’m going to hide any mental struggles I’m having from the FAA. There's an additional problem here: if you have depression, you can bet your ass you're going to hide your mental struggles. Thus we don't know if the pilots interviewed in the article are a) not coming forward with their mental struggles because of the policy, or b) are using the policy as an excuse not to come forward with their mental struggles. (Coming from first-hand experience with a pilot who used the policy as an excuse not to get help with their mental struggles. E.g., after the person was no longer a pilot they still did not get help with their mental struggles.)
makeitdouble 3y ago
> I don’t have a better solution, but I also don’t really think it’s a big problem to begin with. The simplest solution that comes to mind is paid recovery period with a guarantee to come back to the workforce after treatment. Basically what is done in any other profession in countries with paid medical leaves. > But for “run-of-the-mill” depression? That’s my business. I can still perform the job. I'd beg to differ. Someone with a diagnosed depression ahouldn't be doing any job beyond stuff they do alone with no risk whatsoever (gender separating chicks ? tending sheeps ?), and I feel it's just problematic as a society to not have them get help. Nobody's truely unrelated and it has ripple effects.
loeg 3y ago
> How many pilots have intentionally crashed their planes for mental health reasons? The only one that comes to mind is that Germanwings pilot a few years ago. MH370.
- can16358p 3y ago
  And how exactly do you know the pilot intentionally crashed MH370? It's still an unknown mystery, with no evidence of such a deliberate pilot crash.
  - habinero 3y ago
    There's a good overview here of the evidence, from a pilot. https://youtu.be/MhkTo9Rk6_4?si=dOiHmbQi2CGleyc_ https://youtu.be/MhkTo9Rk6_4?si=dOiHmbQi2CGleyc_ The big thing that made me believe it is the captain had the same route on his simulator at home and deleted it.
    - can16358p 3y ago
      Ok missed that one, seems interesting, will watch it thanks!
srvmshr 3y ago
China Eastern 5735 was suspected to have gone down due to pilot suicide, but the media rarely talks anything about it even after a year. Maybe future report might tell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Eastern_Airlines_Flight_5735 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Eastern_Airlines_Fligh...
jerlam 3y ago
Not a crash, but a "near miss", is the recent Alaska 2059 incident, where a deadheading pilot (passenger) in the cockpit, depressed and on shrooms, started to disable the fuel systems to the plane's engines before having a moment of clarity and stopping himself.
bsder 3y ago
> I don’t have a better solution There is an easy one. Simply remove mental illness as a thing you have to report. I suspect that not getting help is far more likely to lead to an eventual bad outcome than any benefit you get from screening which causes everybody to hide everything. Medical leave for prolonged treatment, however, is a bit trickier.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
gosub100 3y ago
Egypt Air flight 990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

greyface- 3y ago

> How many pilots have intentionally crashed their planes for mental health reasons? The only one that comes to mind is that Germanwings pilot a few years ago. This one comes to mind for me, although not technically a pilot: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Horizon_Air_Q400_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Horizon_Air_Q400_incident

FireBeyond 3y ago
An Alaska mechanic stole a small jet and intentionally crashed it and killed himself.

kingTug 3y ago

Agree with the sentiment (and have no better solutions either) but the lesser symptoms of clinical depression like insomnia, inability to focus, etc. are probably the more pressing concerns.

function_seven 3y ago
Good point. I went straight to the most sensational way it could manifest. And, yeah, still can’t think of a good solution.

computerfriend 3y ago

China Eastern 5735 is another recent one.

FL410 3y ago

It’s not just about hiding the problem from the FAA, it’s about a pervasive fear of getting help due to losing their livelihood. There are tons of really common reasons for wanting some mental health guidance (loss in the family, career stress, martial, whatever). Imagine having to choose between letting a relatively normal and treatable issue fester, or getting help but potentially losing your 20+ year career. It’s a shit situation and for all the FAA’s gyrations about mental health, this is fully their problem and they should be positively ashamed with their lack of reform.

jancsika 3y ago

> If I was a pilot, you bet your ass I’m going to hide any mental struggles I’m having from the FAA. There's an additional problem here: if you have depression, you can bet your ass you're going to hide your mental struggles. Thus we don't know if the pilots interviewed in the article are a) not coming forward with their mental struggles because of the policy, or b) are using the policy as an excuse not to come forward with their mental struggles. (Coming from first-hand experience with a pilot who used the policy as an excuse not to get help with their mental struggles. E.g., after the person was no longer a pilot they still did not get help with their mental struggles.)

makeitdouble 3y ago

> I don’t have a better solution, but I also don’t really think it’s a big problem to begin with. The simplest solution that comes to mind is paid recovery period with a guarantee to come back to the workforce after treatment. Basically what is done in any other profession in countries with paid medical leaves. > But for “run-of-the-mill” depression? That’s my business. I can still perform the job. I'd beg to differ. Someone with a diagnosed depression ahouldn't be doing any job beyond stuff they do alone with no risk whatsoever (gender separating chicks ? tending sheeps ?), and I feel it's just problematic as a society to not have them get help. Nobody's truely unrelated and it has ripple effects.

loeg 3y ago

> How many pilots have intentionally crashed their planes for mental health reasons? The only one that comes to mind is that Germanwings pilot a few years ago. MH370.

can16358p 3y ago
And how exactly do you know the pilot intentionally crashed MH370? It's still an unknown mystery, with no evidence of such a deliberate pilot crash.
- habinero 3y ago
  There's a good overview here of the evidence, from a pilot. https://youtu.be/MhkTo9Rk6_4?si=dOiHmbQi2CGleyc_ https://youtu.be/MhkTo9Rk6_4?si=dOiHmbQi2CGleyc_ The big thing that made me believe it is the captain had the same route on his simulator at home and deleted it.
  - can16358p 3y ago
    Ok missed that one, seems interesting, will watch it thanks!

srvmshr 3y ago

China Eastern 5735 was suspected to have gone down due to pilot suicide, but the media rarely talks anything about it even after a year. Maybe future report might tell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Eastern_Airlines_Flight_5735 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Eastern_Airlines_Fligh...

jerlam 3y ago

Not a crash, but a "near miss", is the recent Alaska 2059 incident, where a deadheading pilot (passenger) in the cockpit, depressed and on shrooms, started to disable the fuel systems to the plane's engines before having a moment of clarity and stopping himself.

bsder 3y ago

> I don’t have a better solution There is an easy one. Simply remove mental illness as a thing you have to report. I suspect that not getting help is far more likely to lead to an eventual bad outcome than any benefit you get from screening which causes everybody to hide everything. Medical leave for prolonged treatment, however, is a bit trickier.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

gosub100 3y ago

Egypt Air flight 990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990