4 ms·

I think it's more of a sign that they're incapable of building software just like almost every other car company. Car makers are starting to strip out CarPlay

I think it's more of a sign that they're incapable of building software just like almost every other car company. Car makers are starting to strip out CarPlay as well because they can see the consumer wanting CarPlay to control everything and car companies don't want to give up control.

MostlyStable 3y ago
I hear Tesla's software is pretty good. Don't care, still want physical buttons. Someone could make perfect software that was tailored to my specific desires. I'd still want physical climate and media control buttons.
- lvturner 3y ago
  Every time this comes up I feel like some kind of outlier. Between the scroll wheel on the dash and voice control, I feel my media control is better than any physical controls I've ever used. As for climate control, I set it up once and I've never really touched it since (occasionally a passenger wants their side of the car a bit hotter/colder) -- I just don't see a need to adjust it.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    > As for climate control, I set it up once and I've never really touched it since You obviously live in the particular part of the world that these screens are designed for, no seasons and no temperature changes during the day. Unfortunately the majority of the worlds population don't have this, and find it cooler in the morning and warm in the afternoon requiring a change of temperature.
    - lvturner 3y ago
      No, I just set it to a comfortable temperature - during the summer I pre-cool the car before I get in and likewise if I leave it sitting in the sun. In the winter I make use of the heated seats via voice control.
kstrauser 3y ago
I think you’re right. And what they’re paid to not be able to understand is that their own solutions are always, always worse than CarPlay (and also I assume the Google version). Love our Toyota. Loathe the Entune system that would have been awesome in 2003. For Christmas, I’m having that awful homegrown experience replaced with a proper CarPlay setup.
ryeguy_24 3y ago
And those are the cars I won't ever buy. CarPlay has become so important to my driving experience that it's a non-negotiable feature for me. I think a lot of people would say the same.
- sxg 3y ago
  A lot of survey data supports this sentiment, and I personally agree as well—I wouldn't ever buy a non-CarPlay car in 2024. However, car manufacturers that remove CarPlay may be able to decrease prices, and their target customer is very price sensitive. I think a lot of diehard CarPlay users would consider buying a non-CarPlay car if it were 5–10% cheaper overall.
  - joshspankit 3y ago
    I think a lot of those 5-10% would be thinking “I’m sure I can add it aftermarket and save $$”
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I've never used CarPlay, so I'd happily accept 5-10% cheaper to not have it.
arcticbull 3y ago
> I think it's more of a sign that they're incapable of building software just like almost every other car company. I think the general sentiment is that no, in fact, touch screens are a bad UX for cars where you, the driver, are supposed to be looking at the road.
- bottlepalm 3y ago
  Doesn't matter, there are so many buttons people still have to look at what they're pressing. It's not like playing an album on the screen and putting a CD in your deck is much different distraction wise.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
echelon 3y ago
> car companies don't want to give up control. Why should they? The software world gave up complete control to Apple and Google. Look what that looks like for anyone in software not Apple or Google trying to reach a customer on their typical device: - 30% taxation on everything - no ability to deploy whatever, whenever - strict, capricious review - forced to use their payment rails, their user account rails - no customer relationship - no runtimes, no hot patches, no deploy whenever - forced to jump through upgrade cycles on their schedule or get your app down-ranked - you have to fight ads against your own product. Apple/Google make money on those ads. - if you want to side-load, that's "scary" on Android and impossible on Apple - if you want to deploy to the web, the web is a second class citizen It's absurd and intensely unfair. Apple and Google won and locked down the American consumer. You can't easily access them without going through Apple/Google. If car companies fall for this boondoggle, this is their future: - 10% of sticker price of car paid to Apple/Google - ads for other car companies in the dash - radio subscription fees going to Apple/Google - car telemetry and demographic data sold to competitors - car telemetry and demographic data not given to car manufacturer to improve their systems - reminders to service direct away from vendor/dealer centers - insurance data and analytics plays go to Apple/Google - "Fast Pass" systems live in the App Store now and run on Apple payment rails. - Future in-vehicle billing goes to Apple/Google - Future self-navigation / smart fleet solutions to Apple/Google - ... All the hard as hell work of making a car, and you don't get any of these future upsides. It goes to the dumb, unregulated and uncompetitive smart glass companies. Because they got there first and established a duopoly with tendrils a mile deep. Basically, I always think, "what's the worst I could do or extort from a company if I controlled them completely?" and then figure that's on Apple/Google's roadmap.
- bottlepalm 3y ago
  I'm not sure if it's 'extorting'. Software is hard. Apple/Google put a lot into developing/maintaining their software. People want it. Car companies don't have it. I can tell you the future. It's that legacy car companies will be merged, acquired, and reduced to a body style and brand logo with maybe 100 employees. Real competition is coming fast, there's no way they survive.

MostlyStable 3y ago

I hear Tesla's software is pretty good. Don't care, still want physical buttons. Someone could make perfect software that was tailored to my specific desires. I'd still want physical climate and media control buttons.

lvturner 3y ago
Every time this comes up I feel like some kind of outlier. Between the scroll wheel on the dash and voice control, I feel my media control is better than any physical controls I've ever used. As for climate control, I set it up once and I've never really touched it since (occasionally a passenger wants their side of the car a bit hotter/colder) -- I just don't see a need to adjust it.
- happymellon 3y ago
  > As for climate control, I set it up once and I've never really touched it since You obviously live in the particular part of the world that these screens are designed for, no seasons and no temperature changes during the day. Unfortunately the majority of the worlds population don't have this, and find it cooler in the morning and warm in the afternoon requiring a change of temperature.
  - lvturner 3y ago
    No, I just set it to a comfortable temperature - during the summer I pre-cool the car before I get in and likewise if I leave it sitting in the sun. In the winter I make use of the heated seats via voice control.

kstrauser 3y ago

I think you’re right. And what they’re paid to not be able to understand is that their own solutions are always, always worse than CarPlay (and also I assume the Google version). Love our Toyota. Loathe the Entune system that would have been awesome in 2003. For Christmas, I’m having that awful homegrown experience replaced with a proper CarPlay setup.

ryeguy_24 3y ago

And those are the cars I won't ever buy. CarPlay has become so important to my driving experience that it's a non-negotiable feature for me. I think a lot of people would say the same.

sxg 3y ago
A lot of survey data supports this sentiment, and I personally agree as well—I wouldn't ever buy a non-CarPlay car in 2024. However, car manufacturers that remove CarPlay may be able to decrease prices, and their target customer is very price sensitive. I think a lot of diehard CarPlay users would consider buying a non-CarPlay car if it were 5–10% cheaper overall.
- joshspankit 3y ago
  I think a lot of those 5-10% would be thinking “I’m sure I can add it aftermarket and save $$”
- dylan604 3y ago
  I've never used CarPlay, so I'd happily accept 5-10% cheaper to not have it.

arcticbull 3y ago

> I think it's more of a sign that they're incapable of building software just like almost every other car company. I think the general sentiment is that no, in fact, touch screens are a bad UX for cars where you, the driver, are supposed to be looking at the road.

bottlepalm 3y ago
Doesn't matter, there are so many buttons people still have to look at what they're pressing. It's not like playing an album on the screen and putting a CD in your deck is much different distraction wise.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

echelon 3y ago

> car companies don't want to give up control. Why should they? The software world gave up complete control to Apple and Google. Look what that looks like for anyone in software not Apple or Google trying to reach a customer on their typical device: - 30% taxation on everything - no ability to deploy whatever, whenever - strict, capricious review - forced to use their payment rails, their user account rails - no customer relationship - no runtimes, no hot patches, no deploy whenever - forced to jump through upgrade cycles on their schedule or get your app down-ranked - you have to fight ads against your own product. Apple/Google make money on those ads. - if you want to side-load, that's "scary" on Android and impossible on Apple - if you want to deploy to the web, the web is a second class citizen It's absurd and intensely unfair. Apple and Google won and locked down the American consumer. You can't easily access them without going through Apple/Google. If car companies fall for this boondoggle, this is their future: - 10% of sticker price of car paid to Apple/Google - ads for other car companies in the dash - radio subscription fees going to Apple/Google - car telemetry and demographic data sold to competitors - car telemetry and demographic data not given to car manufacturer to improve their systems - reminders to service direct away from vendor/dealer centers - insurance data and analytics plays go to Apple/Google - "Fast Pass" systems live in the App Store now and run on Apple payment rails. - Future in-vehicle billing goes to Apple/Google - Future self-navigation / smart fleet solutions to Apple/Google - ... All the hard as hell work of making a car, and you don't get any of these future upsides. It goes to the dumb, unregulated and uncompetitive smart glass companies. Because they got there first and established a duopoly with tendrils a mile deep. Basically, I always think, "what's the worst I could do or extort from a company if I controlled them completely?" and then figure that's on Apple/Google's roadmap.

bottlepalm 3y ago
I'm not sure if it's 'extorting'. Software is hard. Apple/Google put a lot into developing/maintaining their software. People want it. Car companies don't have it. I can tell you the future. It's that legacy car companies will be merged, acquired, and reduced to a body style and brand logo with maybe 100 employees. Real competition is coming fast, there's no way they survive.