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> It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. Is there any evidence that French has some unique qualities that render it unusually diff

> It is because it actually is very hard to understand broken French. Is there any evidence that French has some unique qualities that render it unusually difficult to understand when not spoken by a someone fluent in the language? I’m reasonably competent in French and if there is such a feature, I don’t see it.

esperent 3y ago
No, I don't think so. In my experience of traveling around and trying to speak various languages in a broken fashion, the biggest difficulty is the native's receptivity to trying to understand you. The second biggest difficulty is ease of basic pronunciations, and this does vary a lot between languages. For example, currently I'm in Vietnam, and local people do not try to understand foreigners who speak Vietnamese at all. By locals, I mean people I meet around during the day like shopkeepers and service people rather than my friends. The pronunciation is also extremely difficult because of the tones and the very large difference in regional accents. It's frustrating and I have given up trying to learn the language because of this. I would accept that France is slightly harder to pronounce than English but as a beginner/intermediate French speaker I don't personally believe it. However, I definitely agree that people in France - especially Paris - are not receptive to foreigners speaking French at all. They don't support you, and you do feel looked down on for speaking badly (in comparison to Vietnam where you will never feel looked down on, you'll just receive looks of confusion). Again, I don't mean friends that you make. I mean the general French populace that you meet while going about your daily business, in shops, restaurants, and so on. Spain, Italy, Greece are similar to France in that they are condescending towards non-native speakers. Mainland Greece was the worst for me. Meanwhile I would say that Portugal, Indonesia, Germany, and many English speaking countries (at least in cities) are quite helpful and friendly towards non-native speakers. Of course, I only have my own limited experience to go on so I may be wrong.
- dnh44 3y ago
  >Spain, Italy, Greece are similar to France in that they are condescending towards non-native speakers. I've spent quite a lot of time in Spain and I've never felt that but it's possible that I just didn't notice. The same in Italy although I've only spent 3 or 4 weeks there in total. However it has never occurred to me to think of Paris as unfriendly either which seems to contradict the experience of most other people, so maybe I'm just oblivious to that sort of thing.
- foldr 3y ago
  Like the sibling, I haven't found Spain too bad for this. Waiters and other service staff sometimes switch to English on me despite my Spanish being perfectly serviceable for that sort of interaction, but no-one's ever been rude to me about it. One waitress apologised when I said that I like to practice my Spanish, but explained that she also wanted to practice her English. I suspect that's quite a common dynamic. One thing I've found is that fleeting interactions in shops and restaurants are a terrible way of practicing a language. I can have a full conversation with a Spanish person without too much difficulty, but I still find shops and restaurants quite challenging situations. So, don't go on holiday to practice language X. Pay $15 for a one hour online conversation class.
  - esperent 3y ago
    My experience from Spain is about fifteen years ago, so I will concede that maybe I was unlucky, or maybe things have changed there.
teknico 3y ago
You don’t? Help yourself: https://youtu.be/t2Hxd3Emg4E https://youtu.be/t2Hxd3Emg4E The whole channel is quite hilarious and depressing at the same time.
Naijoko 3y ago
I speak fluent german and french. And I think yes. French has way less words then german or english. And for many things we dont have words but more desciptions. And french feeles more compressed in the sense that I cant take any word out of the sentence without taking the sense away. In english and German broken sentences still make sense if the context is given. And some words to Paris. Yes people there are rude! But you have to understand that most People in France live there and WORK there. They give a fuck about tourism because there is so much other work there the town could skip on it. Thats why they are anoid by tourists. They go to work and some people ask them for things they dont care because they have to go to work. Paris is a dream in Summertime because so many people leave Paris because of summer vacations that it is totaly empty. And yes American tourists are something special. You can see them 100meter away beeing confused why Paris is building houses in such an old fashioned way.
kergonath 3y ago
> Is there any evidence that French has some unique qualities that render it unusually difficult to understand when not spoken by a someone fluent in the language? Usually it’s just English exceptionalism and the centuries-old rivalry between both countries. Don’t expect much objectivity from either side. From Americans, it’s usually ignorance of a foreign language. Spanish-speaking Americans don’t tend to say this sort of thing. > I’m reasonably competent in French and if there is such a feature, I don’t see it. There is none.
Bayart 3y ago
The lack of tonal stressing makes enounciation and grammar more important than it would otherwise.

esperent 3y ago

No, I don't think so. In my experience of traveling around and trying to speak various languages in a broken fashion, the biggest difficulty is the native's receptivity to trying to understand you. The second biggest difficulty is ease of basic pronunciations, and this does vary a lot between languages. For example, currently I'm in Vietnam, and local people do not try to understand foreigners who speak Vietnamese at all. By locals, I mean people I meet around during the day like shopkeepers and service people rather than my friends. The pronunciation is also extremely difficult because of the tones and the very large difference in regional accents. It's frustrating and I have given up trying to learn the language because of this. I would accept that France is slightly harder to pronounce than English but as a beginner/intermediate French speaker I don't personally believe it. However, I definitely agree that people in France - especially Paris - are not receptive to foreigners speaking French at all. They don't support you, and you do feel looked down on for speaking badly (in comparison to Vietnam where you will never feel looked down on, you'll just receive looks of confusion). Again, I don't mean friends that you make. I mean the general French populace that you meet while going about your daily business, in shops, restaurants, and so on. Spain, Italy, Greece are similar to France in that they are condescending towards non-native speakers. Mainland Greece was the worst for me. Meanwhile I would say that Portugal, Indonesia, Germany, and many English speaking countries (at least in cities) are quite helpful and friendly towards non-native speakers. Of course, I only have my own limited experience to go on so I may be wrong.

dnh44 3y ago
>Spain, Italy, Greece are similar to France in that they are condescending towards non-native speakers. I've spent quite a lot of time in Spain and I've never felt that but it's possible that I just didn't notice. The same in Italy although I've only spent 3 or 4 weeks there in total. However it has never occurred to me to think of Paris as unfriendly either which seems to contradict the experience of most other people, so maybe I'm just oblivious to that sort of thing.
foldr 3y ago
Like the sibling, I haven't found Spain too bad for this. Waiters and other service staff sometimes switch to English on me despite my Spanish being perfectly serviceable for that sort of interaction, but no-one's ever been rude to me about it. One waitress apologised when I said that I like to practice my Spanish, but explained that she also wanted to practice her English. I suspect that's quite a common dynamic. One thing I've found is that fleeting interactions in shops and restaurants are a terrible way of practicing a language. I can have a full conversation with a Spanish person without too much difficulty, but I still find shops and restaurants quite challenging situations. So, don't go on holiday to practice language X. Pay $15 for a one hour online conversation class.
- esperent 3y ago
  My experience from Spain is about fifteen years ago, so I will concede that maybe I was unlucky, or maybe things have changed there.

teknico 3y ago

You don’t? Help yourself: https://youtu.be/t2Hxd3Emg4E https://youtu.be/t2Hxd3Emg4E The whole channel is quite hilarious and depressing at the same time.

Naijoko 3y ago

I speak fluent german and french. And I think yes. French has way less words then german or english. And for many things we dont have words but more desciptions. And french feeles more compressed in the sense that I cant take any word out of the sentence without taking the sense away. In english and German broken sentences still make sense if the context is given. And some words to Paris. Yes people there are rude! But you have to understand that most People in France live there and WORK there. They give a fuck about tourism because there is so much other work there the town could skip on it. Thats why they are anoid by tourists. They go to work and some people ask them for things they dont care because they have to go to work. Paris is a dream in Summertime because so many people leave Paris because of summer vacations that it is totaly empty. And yes American tourists are something special. You can see them 100meter away beeing confused why Paris is building houses in such an old fashioned way.

kergonath 3y ago

> Is there any evidence that French has some unique qualities that render it unusually difficult to understand when not spoken by a someone fluent in the language? Usually it’s just English exceptionalism and the centuries-old rivalry between both countries. Don’t expect much objectivity from either side. From Americans, it’s usually ignorance of a foreign language. Spanish-speaking Americans don’t tend to say this sort of thing. > I’m reasonably competent in French and if there is such a feature, I don’t see it. There is none.

Bayart 3y ago

The lack of tonal stressing makes enounciation and grammar more important than it would otherwise.