3 ms·

Does it need to be in this case? Does the (real or perceived) need for immediacy justify the incredible level of invasiveness of this mass surveillance?

averageRoyalty 3y ago
With multiple grounded aircraft at one of the busiest international airports in the world? Immediacy is definitely warrented. I'm unsure if the invasiveness is, but obviously a 24 hour+ process isn't viable.
Dalewyn 3y ago
If it turns out one of the women is the mother, it would not be trivial to arrest and bring her to trial across international borders. This is also assuming the mother doesn't further vanish into thin air, so to speak. So while I find the methods questionable, I also accept there is merit in pursuing methods that can give reasonable evidence towards an arrest now before the mother can high tail it.
irjustin 3y ago
> Does the (real or perceived) need for immediacy justify the incredible level of invasiveness of this mass surveillance? "mass surveillance" this is not; invasive - absolutely. What you're proposing, if I was a woman (I am not) to be searched is instead i have to give up my DNA to have them store on record in case I was the person who abandoned the newborn. That's much closer to "mass surveillance" than a body search. If given the choice, I would give the body search 100%.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > "mass surveillance" this is not How so? I'm imagining they're intending to detain and investigate indiscriminately every woman of child-bearing age in the airport and on flights that recently boarded. That seems to meet the definition to me.
  - irjustin 3y ago
    Because it has a clear target and a very defined line. They can't keep doing it, that's the biggest part it stops. Mass surveillance has a definition[0]. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#:~:text=Mass%20surveillance%20is%20the%20intricate,monitor%20that%20group%20of%20citizens https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#:~:text=Ma....

averageRoyalty 3y ago

With multiple grounded aircraft at one of the busiest international airports in the world? Immediacy is definitely warrented. I'm unsure if the invasiveness is, but obviously a 24 hour+ process isn't viable.

Dalewyn 3y ago

If it turns out one of the women is the mother, it would not be trivial to arrest and bring her to trial across international borders. This is also assuming the mother doesn't further vanish into thin air, so to speak. So while I find the methods questionable, I also accept there is merit in pursuing methods that can give reasonable evidence towards an arrest now before the mother can high tail it.

irjustin 3y ago

> Does the (real or perceived) need for immediacy justify the incredible level of invasiveness of this mass surveillance? "mass surveillance" this is not; invasive - absolutely. What you're proposing, if I was a woman (I am not) to be searched is instead i have to give up my DNA to have them store on record in case I was the person who abandoned the newborn. That's much closer to "mass surveillance" than a body search. If given the choice, I would give the body search 100%.

sokoloff 3y ago
> "mass surveillance" this is not How so? I'm imagining they're intending to detain and investigate indiscriminately every woman of child-bearing age in the airport and on flights that recently boarded. That seems to meet the definition to me.
- irjustin 3y ago
  Because it has a clear target and a very defined line. They can't keep doing it, that's the biggest part it stops. Mass surveillance has a definition[0]. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#:~:text=Mass%20surveillance%20is%20the%20intricate,monitor%20that%20group%20of%20citizens https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance#:~:text=Ma....