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The Académie nowadays is (mostly) a bunch of old politically influent people with zero or little linguistic knowledge. They stopped reforming the language almos

The Académie nowadays is (mostly) a bunch of old politically influent people with zero or little linguistic knowledge. They stopped reforming the language almost two hundred years ago and now they can only hope that people will keep paying them attention. But the language will keep evolving and drifting, and they will keep resisting, until the divergence will be so large that they will just disappear into nothingness, and people will ask: "why did people bother with them for so long?..." Or, as the young ones do nowadays, they'll just say "Cheh!" to the Académie.

BrandoElFollito 3y ago
Well, yes, except that this is the language (and its rules) that is taught as school.
- mr90210 3y ago
  Do your research on European Portuguese vs Brazilian Portuguese, and you’ll realize that the latter owns its own version and defines its own standard without needing the consent from any other country. So, there is nothing France or any institution can do about it.
  - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
    This is exactly what I wrote in my last sentence. Every country speaking a language influences its version.
  - heywhatupboys 3y ago
    "read up on this wholly separate language and language culture, and you will see that I mean about French"
- jeromegv 3y ago
  Is that really? I know in Quebec it’s the government that decides what is thought in school and the French they use is definitely diverging from outdated académie française. Not sure about France
  - BrandoElFollito 3y ago
    I Quebec maybe, because it is a different language (Canadian French) and they can decide what they want (though since they are fine with the Queen bing their ruler, I do not see reasons fro the French Academy not to be the source of wisdom when it comes to French /s)
    - prmoustache 3y ago
      The french that kids learn at school is different than the french they speak with their family[1] of the french they speak with their friends[2]. People adapt based on contexts. I don't think it makes a huge difference on how the language evolve, as ultimately the French Academy cannot force french people to speak one way or another. The only big effect it has is it brings additional hurdles for kids coming from another french speaking country when their country of origin has largely adopted simplified grammar and conjugations. [1] regional expressions with sometimes a simplified/modified grammar on those [2] use of slang + verlan (reversing some words) + adoption of some arabic words
mr90210 3y ago
Spot on. I am surprised that such a topic has been made an article about given that language mutates 100% of the time as soon as leaves its place of origin for whatever the mean, from accent, to colloquialisms and to slangs. It happened to Spanish, English and to other languages.
pyrale 3y ago
> until the divergence will be so large that they will just disappear into nothingness, and people will ask: "why did people bother with them for so long?..." They won't disappear as long as there is money.
pelorat 3y ago
> They stopped reforming the language That's the whole point of their existence...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Well then what's their point of existence apart from taking (rather large) bunch of tax money? To point out how much they didn't do every year?
- GuB-42 3y ago
  I see you are starting to understand ;) Really, this is more of a honorific position for famous authors and those with enough political influence. Some deserve their fame, but they tend to be passed their prime and are far from expert linguists. Their contributions are often treated as a joke by most French people. One of their mission is to maintain an official dictionary of the French language. The latest edition is nearly 100 years old. And for reforms, they only part of the process, most of the real work is done by actual expert linguists and legislators.
- fknorangesite 3y ago
  Exactly. Hence > people with zero or little linguistic knowledge. They are tilting at windmills.
throw_m239339 3y ago
> The Académie nowadays is (mostly) a bunch of old politically influent people with zero or little linguistic knowledge. Yet thanks to them we escaped that hellhole nonsense that is the so called "écriture inclusive". All evolutions aren't good. French grammar needs to be simplified though, but not made a trophe on the altar of intersectionality.
- becquerel 3y ago
  I agree, top-down linguistive prescriptivism is good when it means not catering to marginalised people
  - throw_m239339 3y ago
    > I agree, top-down linguistive prescriptivism is good when it means not catering to marginalised people "marginalised" according to whom? The only thing that is marginalizing people trying to learn french here is text with .é.ée or so everywhere. That definitely excludes french language learners from reading french. Anyway, that debate is over, back to intersectionalists attempting at another wave of newpseak nonsense.
- gobip 3y ago
  "Mesdames et Messieurs" is inclusive. You've heard that for as long as you can remember. "Statut : marié(e)" is also inclusive. Check your tax return. The median "." for example "marié.e" is also inclusive and is probably what you're against. Please hate it right, we all use inclusive, even in English (ladies and gentlemen for example). Being inclusive is good, you're doing it too.
  - throw_m239339 3y ago
    > "Mesdames et Messieurs" is inclusive. You've heard that for as long as you can remember. Oh so french was already "inclusive" then? LOL. > The median "." for example "marié.e" is also inclusive I don't care about "inclusivity", it's weasel word for intersectionalists. The "median ." isn't french language, it's unreadable when literred everywhere. "l'écriture inclusive" is a canonical exemple of cultural vandalisme (and newspeak, absolutely nothing inclusive about that language, but intersectionality is first and foremost a war on language).
rollcat 3y ago
> But the language will keep evolving and drifting, and they will keep resisting, until the divergence will be so large that they will just disappear into nothingness, and people will ask: "why did people bother with them for so long?..." I think it's a good occasion to bring up Katharevousa[0], an effort (more imho than an actual spoken language) to "clean up" contemporary Greek; the tldr net result was you couldn't file your taxes, because the language on the forms was not the language you spoke with your family and neighbors. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharevousa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharevousa

BrandoElFollito 3y ago

Well, yes, except that this is the language (and its rules) that is taught as school.

mr90210 3y ago
Do your research on European Portuguese vs Brazilian Portuguese, and you’ll realize that the latter owns its own version and defines its own standard without needing the consent from any other country. So, there is nothing France or any institution can do about it.
- BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  This is exactly what I wrote in my last sentence. Every country speaking a language influences its version.
- heywhatupboys 3y ago
  "read up on this wholly separate language and language culture, and you will see that I mean about French"
jeromegv 3y ago
Is that really? I know in Quebec it’s the government that decides what is thought in school and the French they use is definitely diverging from outdated académie française. Not sure about France
- BrandoElFollito 3y ago
  I Quebec maybe, because it is a different language (Canadian French) and they can decide what they want (though since they are fine with the Queen bing their ruler, I do not see reasons fro the French Academy not to be the source of wisdom when it comes to French /s)
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    The french that kids learn at school is different than the french they speak with their family[1] of the french they speak with their friends[2]. People adapt based on contexts. I don't think it makes a huge difference on how the language evolve, as ultimately the French Academy cannot force french people to speak one way or another. The only big effect it has is it brings additional hurdles for kids coming from another french speaking country when their country of origin has largely adopted simplified grammar and conjugations. [1] regional expressions with sometimes a simplified/modified grammar on those [2] use of slang + verlan (reversing some words) + adoption of some arabic words

mr90210 3y ago

Spot on. I am surprised that such a topic has been made an article about given that language mutates 100% of the time as soon as leaves its place of origin for whatever the mean, from accent, to colloquialisms and to slangs. It happened to Spanish, English and to other languages.

pyrale 3y ago

> until the divergence will be so large that they will just disappear into nothingness, and people will ask: "why did people bother with them for so long?..." They won't disappear as long as there is money.

pelorat 3y ago

> They stopped reforming the language That's the whole point of their existence...

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
saiya-jin 3y ago
Well then what's their point of existence apart from taking (rather large) bunch of tax money? To point out how much they didn't do every year?
GuB-42 3y ago
I see you are starting to understand ;) Really, this is more of a honorific position for famous authors and those with enough political influence. Some deserve their fame, but they tend to be passed their prime and are far from expert linguists. Their contributions are often treated as a joke by most French people. One of their mission is to maintain an official dictionary of the French language. The latest edition is nearly 100 years old. And for reforms, they only part of the process, most of the real work is done by actual expert linguists and legislators.
fknorangesite 3y ago
Exactly. Hence > people with zero or little linguistic knowledge. They are tilting at windmills.

throw_m239339 3y ago

> The Académie nowadays is (mostly) a bunch of old politically influent people with zero or little linguistic knowledge. Yet thanks to them we escaped that hellhole nonsense that is the so called "écriture inclusive". All evolutions aren't good. French grammar needs to be simplified though, but not made a trophe on the altar of intersectionality.

becquerel 3y ago
I agree, top-down linguistive prescriptivism is good when it means not catering to marginalised people
- throw_m239339 3y ago
  > I agree, top-down linguistive prescriptivism is good when it means not catering to marginalised people "marginalised" according to whom? The only thing that is marginalizing people trying to learn french here is text with .é.ée or so everywhere. That definitely excludes french language learners from reading french. Anyway, that debate is over, back to intersectionalists attempting at another wave of newpseak nonsense.
gobip 3y ago
"Mesdames et Messieurs" is inclusive. You've heard that for as long as you can remember. "Statut : marié(e)" is also inclusive. Check your tax return. The median "." for example "marié.e" is also inclusive and is probably what you're against. Please hate it right, we all use inclusive, even in English (ladies and gentlemen for example). Being inclusive is good, you're doing it too.
- throw_m239339 3y ago
  > "Mesdames et Messieurs" is inclusive. You've heard that for as long as you can remember. Oh so french was already "inclusive" then? LOL. > The median "." for example "marié.e" is also inclusive I don't care about "inclusivity", it's weasel word for intersectionalists. The "median ." isn't french language, it's unreadable when literred everywhere. "l'écriture inclusive" is a canonical exemple of cultural vandalisme (and newspeak, absolutely nothing inclusive about that language, but intersectionality is first and foremost a war on language).

rollcat 3y ago

> But the language will keep evolving and drifting, and they will keep resisting, until the divergence will be so large that they will just disappear into nothingness, and people will ask: "why did people bother with them for so long?..." I think it's a good occasion to bring up Katharevousa[0], an effort (more imho than an actual spoken language) to "clean up" contemporary Greek; the tldr net result was you couldn't file your taxes, because the language on the forms was not the language you spoke with your family and neighbors. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharevousa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharevousa