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A Bit OT, but is there something like the contrary to this - a distro actually fully embracing systemd components? I have spent lots of time with Linux servers

by 9dev 3y ago

A Bit OT, but is there something like the contrary to this - a distro actually fully embracing systemd components? I have spent lots of time with Linux servers. I’m also very pragmatic. systemd has made lots of stuff easier, is highly configurable, maintained and regularly updated, and properly standardised. I acknowledge people who have a need to feel in control or something, but I just want reliable computers that have a single way of doing stuff. They’re cattle, after all. So I’d really love something with an immutable system image, signed boot, and systemd services top to bottom, along the lines of the thought experiments in Poetterings blog. Is that a thing?

LeFantome 3y ago
EndeavourOS seems to be embracing Systemd fairly enthusiastically. Not an immutable distro though.
NewJazz 3y ago
Not really. Which is frankly odd because Poettering definitely has strong opinions about how a distro should be distributed and structured... Curious why he doesn't just do it himself.
- 9dev 3y ago
  I guess he just lacks the time. Maintaining a distro means a long term commitment to maintenance. Although, I guess just building a prototype, or maybe a reference implementation of the thing he writes about, that would be interesting too.
eternityforest 3y ago
That sounds like Ubuntu Core. I use regular Ubuntu, but it looks like they really want to go all snap all the time, so I expect that in a few years I'll probably be using an all snap system Snap might not be a part of systemd, but it is in the same general category of ultra standardized system software.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  Have they addressed any of the complaints about Snap auto-updating and not being able to use 3rd party repositories?
  - eternityforest 3y ago
    Auto refresh can be disabled globally or per-snap now, the server is still closed source. I'm not sure why there's no real FOSS alternative to it, but there was an attempt at one point. I've always thought it would be cool to make a torrent-based P2P snap store.
    - lproven 3y ago
      > the server is still closed source. No it isn't. Canonical's snap store is closed source but Snap does not depend on it and the process of configuring snapd to fetch and install from your own store is fully documented and needs no proprietary or Canonical tech whatsoever.
      - NewJazz 3y ago
        Care to point to the documentation? AFAIK there are 0 open source server ("store") implementations compatible with recent versions of snapd.
        lproven 3y ago
        I wrote it up here. https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/10/snap_without_ubuntu_tools/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/10/snap_without_ubuntu_t... There are multiple links to Canonical docs, and I don't think it's worth trying to summarise it further.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        NewJazz 3y ago
flexagoon 3y ago
There isn't something completely like that, but Fedora Silverblue comes really close (and Universal Blue [1] pushes it slightly closer) [1]: https://universal-blue.org/ https://universal-blue.org/
c0balt 3y ago
You might want to take a look at NixOS[0]. It is fully built around systems for services etc. and while it does allow you to, e.g., use an alternate local DNS resolver instead of systemd-resolved, it still makes it easy to build a fully immutable distro with mostly systemd components. It does have the "downside" of not just being plug-and-play but rather BYO system. [0]: https://nixos.org/manual/nixos/stable/#preface https://nixos.org/manual/nixos/stable/#preface /
9dev 3y ago
Actually, I went ahead and just asked him. This was his response (if you’re reading this for some reason, Lennart, thanks again): > CarbonOS is close, and GnomeOS too. > and here, we build something generic to create images from Fedora/debian/suse/arch… distro packages: > https://github.com/systemd/particleos > There‘s a lot going on in the matrix channel of mkosi, I would recommend taking a look.

by 9dev 3y ago

LeFantome 3y ago

EndeavourOS seems to be embracing Systemd fairly enthusiastically. Not an immutable distro though.

NewJazz 3y ago

Not really. Which is frankly odd because Poettering definitely has strong opinions about how a distro should be distributed and structured... Curious why he doesn't just do it himself.

9dev 3y ago
I guess he just lacks the time. Maintaining a distro means a long term commitment to maintenance. Although, I guess just building a prototype, or maybe a reference implementation of the thing he writes about, that would be interesting too.

eternityforest 3y ago

That sounds like Ubuntu Core. I use regular Ubuntu, but it looks like they really want to go all snap all the time, so I expect that in a few years I'll probably be using an all snap system Snap might not be a part of systemd, but it is in the same general category of ultra standardized system software.

NewJazz 3y ago
Have they addressed any of the complaints about Snap auto-updating and not being able to use 3rd party repositories?
- eternityforest 3y ago
  Auto refresh can be disabled globally or per-snap now, the server is still closed source. I'm not sure why there's no real FOSS alternative to it, but there was an attempt at one point. I've always thought it would be cool to make a torrent-based P2P snap store.
  - lproven 3y ago
    > the server is still closed source. No it isn't. Canonical's snap store is closed source but Snap does not depend on it and the process of configuring snapd to fetch and install from your own store is fully documented and needs no proprietary or Canonical tech whatsoever.
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      Care to point to the documentation? AFAIK there are 0 open source server ("store") implementations compatible with recent versions of snapd.
      - lproven 3y ago
        I wrote it up here. https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/10/snap_without_ubuntu_tools/ https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/10/snap_without_ubuntu_t... There are multiple links to Canonical docs, and I don't think it's worth trying to summarise it further.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        NewJazz 3y ago

flexagoon 3y ago

There isn't something completely like that, but Fedora Silverblue comes really close (and Universal Blue [1] pushes it slightly closer) [1]: https://universal-blue.org/ https://universal-blue.org/

c0balt 3y ago

You might want to take a look at NixOS[0]. It is fully built around systems for services etc. and while it does allow you to, e.g., use an alternate local DNS resolver instead of systemd-resolved, it still makes it easy to build a fully immutable distro with mostly systemd components. It does have the "downside" of not just being plug-and-play but rather BYO system. [0]: https://nixos.org/manual/nixos/stable/#preface https://nixos.org/manual/nixos/stable/#preface /

9dev 3y ago

Actually, I went ahead and just asked him. This was his response (if you’re reading this for some reason, Lennart, thanks again): > CarbonOS is close, and GnomeOS too. > and here, we build something generic to create images from Fedora/debian/suse/arch… distro packages: > https://github.com/systemd/particleos > There‘s a lot going on in the matrix channel of mkosi, I would recommend taking a look.