4 ms·

Unfortunately many people get into a vicious circle of cynicism early in their careers that their lack of growth becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

by mhss 3y ago

mjb 3y ago
Completely agree. It's a huge trap, and an easy one to fall into, especially if you're not super careful about which echo chambers you spend time in. My advice is to be thoughtful about your career and understand your company and industry's value system, but avoid cynicism and cynical people.
guitarbill 3y ago
Unfortunately many people listen to terrible advice and get exploited by companies before learning the lesson the hard way. I'd be more inclined to believe your advice if your other comments on this topic was... realistic or actionable I guess? Caution = cynicism, and companies are either "good" (reward hard work) or "shitty" (??? not good?).
- mhss 3y ago
  > Unfortunately many people listen to terrible advice and get exploited by companies before learning the lesson the hard way. It's my opinion, not particularly advising anyone. > I'd be more inclined to believe your advice if your other comments on this topic was... realistic or actionable I guess? Not really asking you to listen to my "advice", just sharing my perspective. > realistic or actionable I guess? Not being cynic is pretty realistic and actionable. > Caution = cynicism, and companies are either "good" (reward hard work) or "shitty" (??? not good?). That's your understanding. I am a cautious person myself, a bit cynic at times, but they're different things and I'm not the one mixing them up. You are also oversimplifying "good" and "bad" companies. I never said it was sufficient for a company to reward good work to be a good company, but good companies do reward good work (either with promotion or just better comp and benefits). A company that doesn't reward good work is shitty yes, I did not think that was controversial.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
It's hard not to be cynical when the risk and time investment is on our side while the profits are on their side. You want us to "work hard" for the chance of getting a raise or a promotion? We're working, not playing the lottery. If we wanted these risks, we'd start a company. How about these managers write down these rewards in the employment contract instead?
- mhss 3y ago
  > It's hard not to be cynical when the risk and time investment is on our side while the profits are on their side. I guess we just don't see things the same way. I'm not a business owner. You're seeing things black and white. "The profits are on their side" is a black and white statement. You do get some of the profits through your salary and sometimes bonus, stock options or RSUs (depending on the company). It sounds like you're unhappy with your share that you don't feel is worth doing any "extra" effort. See my other comments here. You need to find companies where you feel this balance is fair, so you don't get taken advantage of. > You want us to "work hard" for the chance of getting a raise or a promotion? We're working, not playing the lottery. If we wanted these risks, we'd start a company. I don't want you to do anything. I am just sharing my experience getting promoted and then as a manager how I have seen other people get promoted. You're free to take or dismiss my experience of course. You're severely misunderstanding magnitudes of risk. I was only a "business owner" for a brief period early in my career. I did not get a salary at all when I did not make a sell or found a customer, no social security, vacations, or any benefits to speak of. That is way closer to "playing the lottery". I did not have a good social safety net and decided to become an employee. As an employee you get a "guaranteed" salary and benefits for doing some work most of the times for white collar workers in fixed schedule. A "cushy job". You don't get a guaranteed promotion or more salary for the same work however. Do you really think you're owed promotions or increased benefits for doing the same work? > How about these managers write down these rewards in the employment contract instead? What do you imagine they'd write? what kind of guarantees about increased salary or promotions do you think they can make in a contract?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

Unfortunately many people get into a vicious circle of cynicism early in their careers that their lack of growth becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

by mhss 3y ago

Unfortunately many people get into a vicious circle of cynicism early in their careers that their lack of growth becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

mjb 3y ago

Completely agree. It's a huge trap, and an easy one to fall into, especially if you're not super careful about which echo chambers you spend time in. My advice is to be thoughtful about your career and understand your company and industry's value system, but avoid cynicism and cynical people.

guitarbill 3y ago

Unfortunately many people listen to terrible advice and get exploited by companies before learning the lesson the hard way. I'd be more inclined to believe your advice if your other comments on this topic was... realistic or actionable I guess? Caution = cynicism, and companies are either "good" (reward hard work) or "shitty" (??? not good?).

mhss 3y ago
> Unfortunately many people listen to terrible advice and get exploited by companies before learning the lesson the hard way. It's my opinion, not particularly advising anyone. > I'd be more inclined to believe your advice if your other comments on this topic was... realistic or actionable I guess? Not really asking you to listen to my "advice", just sharing my perspective. > realistic or actionable I guess? Not being cynic is pretty realistic and actionable. > Caution = cynicism, and companies are either "good" (reward hard work) or "shitty" (??? not good?). That's your understanding. I am a cautious person myself, a bit cynic at times, but they're different things and I'm not the one mixing them up. You are also oversimplifying "good" and "bad" companies. I never said it was sufficient for a company to reward good work to be a good company, but good companies do reward good work (either with promotion or just better comp and benefits). A company that doesn't reward good work is shitty yes, I did not think that was controversial.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

It's hard not to be cynical when the risk and time investment is on our side while the profits are on their side. You want us to "work hard" for the chance of getting a raise or a promotion? We're working, not playing the lottery. If we wanted these risks, we'd start a company. How about these managers write down these rewards in the employment contract instead?

mhss 3y ago
> It's hard not to be cynical when the risk and time investment is on our side while the profits are on their side. I guess we just don't see things the same way. I'm not a business owner. You're seeing things black and white. "The profits are on their side" is a black and white statement. You do get some of the profits through your salary and sometimes bonus, stock options or RSUs (depending on the company). It sounds like you're unhappy with your share that you don't feel is worth doing any "extra" effort. See my other comments here. You need to find companies where you feel this balance is fair, so you don't get taken advantage of. > You want us to "work hard" for the chance of getting a raise or a promotion? We're working, not playing the lottery. If we wanted these risks, we'd start a company. I don't want you to do anything. I am just sharing my experience getting promoted and then as a manager how I have seen other people get promoted. You're free to take or dismiss my experience of course. You're severely misunderstanding magnitudes of risk. I was only a "business owner" for a brief period early in my career. I did not get a salary at all when I did not make a sell or found a customer, no social security, vacations, or any benefits to speak of. That is way closer to "playing the lottery". I did not have a good social safety net and decided to become an employee. As an employee you get a "guaranteed" salary and benefits for doing some work most of the times for white collar workers in fixed schedule. A "cushy job". You don't get a guaranteed promotion or more salary for the same work however. Do you really think you're owed promotions or increased benefits for doing the same work? > How about these managers write down these rewards in the employment contract instead? What do you imagine they'd write? what kind of guarantees about increased salary or promotions do you think they can make in a contract?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]