3 ms·

Sounds like there is a need for identity verified reviews. Ie the account doing the review has provided some government issued id during their registration proc

Sounds like there is a need for identity verified reviews. Ie the account doing the review has provided some government issued id during their registration process. Then add in another criteria that they can’t post reviews unless their account is say 3 months old (or some timeframe). You could still record unverified reviews, but hide them and their ratings by default until the user explicitly wants to see them.

Larrikin 3y ago
Who is going to scan in their government ID and send it to a book review site except for the people on the pay roll of a book publishing company that requires their employees to register an account on their first day of work so they can "review" books in three months.
- yardstick 3y ago
  If modern computer games have shown us anything, people will go out of their way (grind, pay) for shiny badges by their names, fancy skins, etc. I’m sure many reviewers will enjoy having a special badge against their name. Not all, sure. We don’t need everyone’s reviews in this situation.
  - Larrikin 3y ago
    Sorry but your idea is terrible. You're only incentiving the exact people nobody wants a review from with a bad analogy.
chongli 3y ago
I'm a legit user of Amazon. My account is probably over 20 years old. I've ordered tons and tons of products. I've never reviewed anything, however I have received products containing "gift certificates" promising me a $10 reward for leaving a fake review (of the product I just purchased). How does Amazon stop me from accepting this bribe?
- somenameforme 3y ago
  I'm unsure if I'm playing devil's advocate or not, but should that not be allowed? That seems more about getting over the bias that people who are content with something are generally less inclined to leave a review than somebody who is unhappy with something. If you get something and it's complete crap, I doubt a $10 gift certificate is going to convince you to go write a positive review of it. If anything, that'll probably end up motivating you to write a negative review, with further mention of it.
  - chongli 3y ago
    If you get something and it's complete crap, I doubt a $10 gift certificate is going to convince you to go write a positive review of it. If anything, that'll probably end up motivating you to write a negative review, with further mention of it. I think it is if the product itself is cheap enough. A $10 product where you get a free $10 gift certificate is essentially free. I think lots of people would be willing to leave a quick 5 star review in exchange for getting the thing they just bought for free, even if the product is kinda crappy. As long as it’s not totally broken and useless!
- yardstick 3y ago
  False flag operations? Amazon slips their own false review gift certificate in. If you use it, they flag you as an ignorable reviewer (shadow ban or whatever).
  - chongli 3y ago
    What incentive does Amazon have to do this? Best case scenario: they ban and alienate a bunch of customers who bought stuff on the site. Worst case scenario: they spend tons of money on these false flag operations and end up removing a lot of bestselling products from the site, reducing sales overall.
    - yardstick 3y ago
      It would be a review shadow ban only. Wouldn’t stop them buying anything or leaving reviews. I doubt it would cost a lot of money from Amazons perspective. But yeah I agree Amazons incentives are not the same as their customers. They obviously have a lot of insight into what drives and lowers sales. Maybe, although I seriously doubt it, at some point they will see enough reduction in sales to take action against poor quality products and their mispresentative reviews.
somenameforme 3y ago
The overwhelming majority of review bombs are from real people, of which ID would do nothing. Steam has shown a really simple solution the problem - a mixture of proof of purchase, and then algorithmically walling off 'irregular activity.' Review bombs on Steam remain relatively regular, but now have basically 0 impact - even extremely large scale ones like when somebody gains the ire of Chinese gamers. Proof of purchase would require some modest effort on the part of publishers to create a workable and shared system, but it should otherwise be trivial to get going. Publishers have a strong motivation to opt-in since fake reviews are probably more detrimental than not to their bottom line.
- yardstick 3y ago
  Once someone is identified as a serial review bomber, then you’d just ban them and all their reviews. Or at least flag their reviews so they aren’t shown by default (similar to a shadow ban). That person could no longer write verified reviews. Maybe it’s a permanent ban, maybe it’s a 1-5 year ban. They wouldn’t be able to verify another account with their identity until the ban is listed. Yeah Steam is good, but mostly because it is a very closed loop system as they own the entire transaction-review-lifecycle. Not soo easy with other things like books.
  - chongli 3y ago
    You can’t identify the review bombers. These are 3rd parties hiring the reviewers to leave reviews. That hiring process takes place offline (from the perspective of your site), so you have no way to monitor and detect these directly. As for the individual reviewers, there are tens of thousands or millions of these, and review bombers can trivially cycle these in and out, so no individual reviewer is a “serial fake reviewer.”
    - yardstick 3y ago
      It’s trivial under current systems. But once you start placing higher value on verified identities, those millions of bombers are going to turn out to be a lot smaller.
creer 3y ago
Naively verified reviews is a way to enforce "mostly positive reviews" - at least in legal-threat-happy countries like the US or the UK.

Larrikin 3y ago

Who is going to scan in their government ID and send it to a book review site except for the people on the pay roll of a book publishing company that requires their employees to register an account on their first day of work so they can "review" books in three months.

yardstick 3y ago
If modern computer games have shown us anything, people will go out of their way (grind, pay) for shiny badges by their names, fancy skins, etc. I’m sure many reviewers will enjoy having a special badge against their name. Not all, sure. We don’t need everyone’s reviews in this situation.
- Larrikin 3y ago
  Sorry but your idea is terrible. You're only incentiving the exact people nobody wants a review from with a bad analogy.

chongli 3y ago

I'm a legit user of Amazon. My account is probably over 20 years old. I've ordered tons and tons of products. I've never reviewed anything, however I have received products containing "gift certificates" promising me a $10 reward for leaving a fake review (of the product I just purchased). How does Amazon stop me from accepting this bribe?

somenameforme 3y ago
I'm unsure if I'm playing devil's advocate or not, but should that not be allowed? That seems more about getting over the bias that people who are content with something are generally less inclined to leave a review than somebody who is unhappy with something. If you get something and it's complete crap, I doubt a $10 gift certificate is going to convince you to go write a positive review of it. If anything, that'll probably end up motivating you to write a negative review, with further mention of it.
- chongli 3y ago
  If you get something and it's complete crap, I doubt a $10 gift certificate is going to convince you to go write a positive review of it. If anything, that'll probably end up motivating you to write a negative review, with further mention of it. I think it is if the product itself is cheap enough. A $10 product where you get a free $10 gift certificate is essentially free. I think lots of people would be willing to leave a quick 5 star review in exchange for getting the thing they just bought for free, even if the product is kinda crappy. As long as it’s not totally broken and useless!
yardstick 3y ago
False flag operations? Amazon slips their own false review gift certificate in. If you use it, they flag you as an ignorable reviewer (shadow ban or whatever).
- chongli 3y ago
  What incentive does Amazon have to do this? Best case scenario: they ban and alienate a bunch of customers who bought stuff on the site. Worst case scenario: they spend tons of money on these false flag operations and end up removing a lot of bestselling products from the site, reducing sales overall.
  - yardstick 3y ago
    It would be a review shadow ban only. Wouldn’t stop them buying anything or leaving reviews. I doubt it would cost a lot of money from Amazons perspective. But yeah I agree Amazons incentives are not the same as their customers. They obviously have a lot of insight into what drives and lowers sales. Maybe, although I seriously doubt it, at some point they will see enough reduction in sales to take action against poor quality products and their mispresentative reviews.

somenameforme 3y ago

The overwhelming majority of review bombs are from real people, of which ID would do nothing. Steam has shown a really simple solution the problem - a mixture of proof of purchase, and then algorithmically walling off 'irregular activity.' Review bombs on Steam remain relatively regular, but now have basically 0 impact - even extremely large scale ones like when somebody gains the ire of Chinese gamers. Proof of purchase would require some modest effort on the part of publishers to create a workable and shared system, but it should otherwise be trivial to get going. Publishers have a strong motivation to opt-in since fake reviews are probably more detrimental than not to their bottom line.

yardstick 3y ago
Once someone is identified as a serial review bomber, then you’d just ban them and all their reviews. Or at least flag their reviews so they aren’t shown by default (similar to a shadow ban). That person could no longer write verified reviews. Maybe it’s a permanent ban, maybe it’s a 1-5 year ban. They wouldn’t be able to verify another account with their identity until the ban is listed. Yeah Steam is good, but mostly because it is a very closed loop system as they own the entire transaction-review-lifecycle. Not soo easy with other things like books.
- chongli 3y ago
  You can’t identify the review bombers. These are 3rd parties hiring the reviewers to leave reviews. That hiring process takes place offline (from the perspective of your site), so you have no way to monitor and detect these directly. As for the individual reviewers, there are tens of thousands or millions of these, and review bombers can trivially cycle these in and out, so no individual reviewer is a “serial fake reviewer.”
  - yardstick 3y ago
    It’s trivial under current systems. But once you start placing higher value on verified identities, those millions of bombers are going to turn out to be a lot smaller.

creer 3y ago

Naively verified reviews is a way to enforce "mostly positive reviews" - at least in legal-threat-happy countries like the US or the UK.