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Anti-cynicism response: you also get rewarded with respect, money, and fulfillment. Obviously the answer to all questions is “it depends”, but I can’t allow a “

Anti-cynicism response: you also get rewarded with respect, money, and fulfillment. Obviously the answer to all questions is “it depends”, but I can’t allow a “hard work is pointless” comment to go unanswered.

rayiner 3y ago
Also, life is work. Be grateful you're not a subsistence farmer, like nearly all humans ever, and a quarter of humans even today. You can learn to take joy in it, or you can choose to be unhappy about it.
analognoise 3y ago
If "it depends" is the answer to "does hard work pay off", then obviously "Hard work is pointless" is true, as it is no longer a guarantee that it will pay off.
- mhss 3y ago
  This is silly. A factor may increase your chances significantly yet not be the only factor. This kind of black and white thinking is why people has a hard time navigating life, expecting any kind of guarantees.
  - analognoise 3y ago
    It’s more silly not to realize that 60 years ago the janitor could buy a house and put the kids through school, 40 years ago you could get a college degree and buy a house as soon as you graduate… And now you get nothing. Sure a few people get lucky - but that’s clearly luck with such obvious systemic issues. Like do you not know people? I know way more people who will never retire or own homes than the opposite. People shouldn’t work hard if the deal gets worse every year. Don’t reinforce this bad system. Tear it down.
    - mhss 3y ago
      > It’s more silly not to realize that 60 years ago the janitor could buy a house and put the kids through school, 40 years ago you could get a college degree and buy a house as soon as you graduate… woah, this a completely different topic. We're talking here about getting promoted. If you want to discuss the topic of how capitalism has degraded the benefits for workers this is not the thread for it. > People shouldn’t work hard if the deal gets worse every year. Don’t reinforce this bad system. Tear it down. You're not "tearing it down" by doing the bare minimum and not getting promoted. You're just hurting your own odds. I did not say work yourself to the bone, there are plenty of ways to show initiative and engagement in your 8hrs at work. re: "tear it down". Replace it with what? we need serious adjustments, but there's no need to descend into anarchy.
ponector 3y ago
Hard work is often pointless. Also it is more beneficial to look like you are hard working employee than actually be one. In IT scope of the work is endless, there is no point to rush. If you finish early you'll get next ticket.
- mhss 3y ago
  At shitty companies, yes. Look around, companies exist where good work is rewarded. A shitty manager will not notice whether you slack off or finish something diligently. Good managers do notice and reward, when the company is not a shithole.
  - 000ooo000 3y ago
    >Look around, companies exist No doubt they do, but for an idea like "hard work is usually worthwhile" to have any merit, these companies would need to be the norm, and not the subject of "they do exist, they're out there I swear!".
    - mhss 3y ago
      You might be right, but the alternative is to resign yourself to stagnation. I'm not sure that's better.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
> you also get rewarded with respect, money, and fulfillment Nope. You get rewarded with exactly how much you're able to get away with demanding via negotiation. The CEO won't suddenly swoop down and say wow what a hard working guy let's double his salary. You get rewarded if you're the only person who's able to do something but you're going to quit because a better company offered you more money. That puts them in the position of either rewarding you or watching you leave.
gamblor956 3y ago
At a small minority of jobs, more work will result in respect, money, and fulfillment. At most jobs, doing more work without a promotion already on the line just means you'll be expected to do more work going forward and your future evaluations will be based on your higher workload rather than your original baseline, which will make reaching that promotion even harder. Ask me how I know that...

rayiner 3y ago

Also, life is work. Be grateful you're not a subsistence farmer, like nearly all humans ever, and a quarter of humans even today. You can learn to take joy in it, or you can choose to be unhappy about it.

analognoise 3y ago

If "it depends" is the answer to "does hard work pay off", then obviously "Hard work is pointless" is true, as it is no longer a guarantee that it will pay off.

mhss 3y ago
This is silly. A factor may increase your chances significantly yet not be the only factor. This kind of black and white thinking is why people has a hard time navigating life, expecting any kind of guarantees.
- analognoise 3y ago
  It’s more silly not to realize that 60 years ago the janitor could buy a house and put the kids through school, 40 years ago you could get a college degree and buy a house as soon as you graduate… And now you get nothing. Sure a few people get lucky - but that’s clearly luck with such obvious systemic issues. Like do you not know people? I know way more people who will never retire or own homes than the opposite. People shouldn’t work hard if the deal gets worse every year. Don’t reinforce this bad system. Tear it down.
  - mhss 3y ago
    > It’s more silly not to realize that 60 years ago the janitor could buy a house and put the kids through school, 40 years ago you could get a college degree and buy a house as soon as you graduate… woah, this a completely different topic. We're talking here about getting promoted. If you want to discuss the topic of how capitalism has degraded the benefits for workers this is not the thread for it. > People shouldn’t work hard if the deal gets worse every year. Don’t reinforce this bad system. Tear it down. You're not "tearing it down" by doing the bare minimum and not getting promoted. You're just hurting your own odds. I did not say work yourself to the bone, there are plenty of ways to show initiative and engagement in your 8hrs at work. re: "tear it down". Replace it with what? we need serious adjustments, but there's no need to descend into anarchy.

ponector 3y ago

Hard work is often pointless. Also it is more beneficial to look like you are hard working employee than actually be one. In IT scope of the work is endless, there is no point to rush. If you finish early you'll get next ticket.

mhss 3y ago
At shitty companies, yes. Look around, companies exist where good work is rewarded. A shitty manager will not notice whether you slack off or finish something diligently. Good managers do notice and reward, when the company is not a shithole.
- 000ooo000 3y ago
  >Look around, companies exist No doubt they do, but for an idea like "hard work is usually worthwhile" to have any merit, these companies would need to be the norm, and not the subject of "they do exist, they're out there I swear!".
  - mhss 3y ago
    You might be right, but the alternative is to resign yourself to stagnation. I'm not sure that's better.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

> you also get rewarded with respect, money, and fulfillment Nope. You get rewarded with exactly how much you're able to get away with demanding via negotiation. The CEO won't suddenly swoop down and say wow what a hard working guy let's double his salary. You get rewarded if you're the only person who's able to do something but you're going to quit because a better company offered you more money. That puts them in the position of either rewarding you or watching you leave.

gamblor956 3y ago

At a small minority of jobs, more work will result in respect, money, and fulfillment. At most jobs, doing more work without a promotion already on the line just means you'll be expected to do more work going forward and your future evaluations will be based on your higher workload rather than your original baseline, which will make reaching that promotion even harder. Ask me how I know that...