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While I agree that what's happening in Gaza is unacceptable and it needs more deliveries of aid, I doubt that it would fix the problem with North Yemen (Houti).

While I agree that what's happening in Gaza is unacceptable and it needs more deliveries of aid, I doubt that it would fix the problem with North Yemen (Houti). Houti aggression on merchant ships is a political act. By attacking Israel they are sending a political message to their opponents that reads "if you attack us right now it means you're on the side of Israel". That's why it doesn't matter whether their garage built cruise missiles actually make it to Eliat, or not, whether they really stop shipping, or not. The shots are fired north at Israel, but the message is targeted south and east. They are in the middle of a civil war, a very long and extremely brutal one, and this tactic works given what their opponents think about themselves and the world. The EU/US response to this will be challenging, mostly because they cannot really threaten Houti power. North Yemen is already in a deeper ruin than most countries are after a war, their military industrial base is located in another country (Iran), and there are very small chances for an internal revolt. BTW, in this conflict China and the US and the EU are actually on the same side, though China will definitely try to sit this one out.

rjzzleep 3y ago
The EU/US, and Israel could have easily avoided this entire thing if their first act had been to immediately condemn Hammas at the UN Security Council, and call for the immediate unconditional release of all hostages. All they needed was to show a little restraint instead of giving in to their revenge instinct. China and Russia are both hostile to Islamic terrorism. Nobody would have vetoed that resolution if Israel hasn't started immediately flattening Gaza. That is actually how Hamas would have lost its leg.
- CubsFan1060 3y ago
  I’m slightly confused. Are you saying that after October 7th a un resolution would have gotten hostages released and Hamas wouldn’t have attacked again?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Are you saying that after October 7th a un resolution would have gotten hostages released and Hamas wouldn’t have attacked again? No, but it would have looked good. That matters in international relations. The Arab world sees America as Israel’s surrogate; that makes it tough for Washington to e.g. strike a deal with Riyadh or Tehran to solve this Bab al-Mandan crisis.
- Veraticus 3y ago
  The UN has never censured Palestine, Gaza, or Hamas. Not even once — not as a response to any of the terrorist attacks against Israel or any of the intifadas. In fact, in response to the first intifada (which resulted in hundreds of Israeli civilian deaths) they censured Israel yet again. So I wouldn’t hold your breath for it to start happening now.
  - rjzzleep 3y ago
    Can you name a single instance where Israel and the US went to the UNSC first before engaging in collective punishment? Just one example would be good.
    - Veraticus 3y ago
      Israel does not view its current military operation as collective punishment, so certainly it would not go to the UN and ask for its permission to do something it does not think it’s doing. Leaving your disingenuous framing aside, yes, Israel has brought complaints to the UN before. See: https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-complains-un-over-hezbollah-buildup-along-border?amp https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-complains-un-over-hezbol...
      - rjzzleep 3y ago
        I think the disingenuity is with you. Here is a quote from the current Israeli President Isaac Herzog: “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true" I asked you for an example of Israel and the US going to the UNSC first and only after that launching an excursion into Gaza. You respond with a complaint about Lebanon moving troops within its own borders. What was the expectation from the UNSC there? How does that relate to my question?
        Veraticus 3y ago
        In what sense does your quote confirm that Israel is engaging in collective punishment? Israel believes it is rooting out Hamas and that there is an embedded civilian component to its operation (which is unequivocally true). This is the problem with taking three sentences out of someone’s mouth and deciding they support an idea as broad as “collective punishment.” Perhaps you should understand the context of his words before you use them? In any event, you asked for one time Israel brought a complaint to the UN and I provided it. Please don’t alter the goalposts you yourself set. What was the UN’s response? Was there an intervention? A censure of Hezbollah or Lebanon? An investigation?
- areyousure 3y ago
  In case anyone is curious, they are welcome to read the following UN Security Council resolution that was vetoed by both China and Russia: https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N23/320/92/PDF/N2332092.pdf https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N23/320/92/PDF...
Fatnino 3y ago
I can see EU and China being in this, but why does US have to care? Ships full of shit from China can get to New York via Panama in about the same distance sailing as going through Suez.

rjzzleep 3y ago

The EU/US, and Israel could have easily avoided this entire thing if their first act had been to immediately condemn Hammas at the UN Security Council, and call for the immediate unconditional release of all hostages. All they needed was to show a little restraint instead of giving in to their revenge instinct. China and Russia are both hostile to Islamic terrorism. Nobody would have vetoed that resolution if Israel hasn't started immediately flattening Gaza. That is actually how Hamas would have lost its leg.

CubsFan1060 3y ago
I’m slightly confused. Are you saying that after October 7th a un resolution would have gotten hostages released and Hamas wouldn’t have attacked again?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Are you saying that after October 7th a un resolution would have gotten hostages released and Hamas wouldn’t have attacked again? No, but it would have looked good. That matters in international relations. The Arab world sees America as Israel’s surrogate; that makes it tough for Washington to e.g. strike a deal with Riyadh or Tehran to solve this Bab al-Mandan crisis.
Veraticus 3y ago
The UN has never censured Palestine, Gaza, or Hamas. Not even once — not as a response to any of the terrorist attacks against Israel or any of the intifadas. In fact, in response to the first intifada (which resulted in hundreds of Israeli civilian deaths) they censured Israel yet again. So I wouldn’t hold your breath for it to start happening now.
- rjzzleep 3y ago
  Can you name a single instance where Israel and the US went to the UNSC first before engaging in collective punishment? Just one example would be good.
  - Veraticus 3y ago
    Israel does not view its current military operation as collective punishment, so certainly it would not go to the UN and ask for its permission to do something it does not think it’s doing. Leaving your disingenuous framing aside, yes, Israel has brought complaints to the UN before. See: https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-complains-un-over-hezbollah-buildup-along-border?amp https://www.newarab.com/news/israel-complains-un-over-hezbol...
    - rjzzleep 3y ago
      I think the disingenuity is with you. Here is a quote from the current Israeli President Isaac Herzog: “It is an entire nation out there that is responsible. It is not true this rhetoric about civilians not being aware, not involved. It’s absolutely not true" I asked you for an example of Israel and the US going to the UNSC first and only after that launching an excursion into Gaza. You respond with a complaint about Lebanon moving troops within its own borders. What was the expectation from the UNSC there? How does that relate to my question?
      - Veraticus 3y ago
        In what sense does your quote confirm that Israel is engaging in collective punishment? Israel believes it is rooting out Hamas and that there is an embedded civilian component to its operation (which is unequivocally true). This is the problem with taking three sentences out of someone’s mouth and deciding they support an idea as broad as “collective punishment.” Perhaps you should understand the context of his words before you use them? In any event, you asked for one time Israel brought a complaint to the UN and I provided it. Please don’t alter the goalposts you yourself set. What was the UN’s response? Was there an intervention? A censure of Hezbollah or Lebanon? An investigation?
areyousure 3y ago
In case anyone is curious, they are welcome to read the following UN Security Council resolution that was vetoed by both China and Russia: https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N23/320/92/PDF/N2332092.pdf https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N23/320/92/PDF...

Fatnino 3y ago

I can see EU and China being in this, but why does US have to care? Ships full of shit from China can get to New York via Panama in about the same distance sailing as going through Suez.