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Becoming a go-to person gets you promoted
- jqpabc123 3y agoCongratulations you hard working guy, you. For all your hard work you get rewarded with ... more hard work.
- JoeDaDude 3y ago"If You Want Something Done, Ask a Busy Person To Do It" - often heard quote. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/01/30/busy/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/01/30/busy/
- jeffrallen 3y agoIf you want something done, learn to do it yourself from the person whom a lazier version of yourself would have asked to do it. Teach a woman to teach a man to fish. :)
- karaterobot 3y agoWork is a pie-eating contest where the prize is more pie. Many learn this lesson too late in their careers. On at least three occasions (as recently as two weeks ago) I turned down promotions because the marginal stress was greater than the marginal salary increase. More money isn't always worth more.
- mhss 3y agoThe point is knowing where your limit is. A promotion often comes with more money and career opportunities. At least it did for me most of the times. The only time when it didn't I left and found better opportunities within a few months. If you like what you do, and they give you new challenges that you enjoy (more pie) and more money/benefits. It's a win win scenario. I realize is not always the case and maybe in many jobs is rarely the case. My whole career almost every promotion has had substantial benefits, opportunities and growth. I am working nowadays less than I did my first 10yrs of career and doing almost 10x the comp.
- jqpabc123 3y agoI've often heard it described as being like a sewage treatment system. The shit generally follows the path of least resistance. The more you handle, the more that flows your way.
- erulabs 3y agoAnti-cynicism response: you also get rewarded with respect, money, and fulfillment. Obviously the answer to all questions is “it depends”, but I can’t allow a “hard work is pointless” comment to go unanswered.
- rayiner 3y agoAlso, life is work. Be grateful you're not a subsistence farmer, like nearly all humans ever, and a quarter of humans even today. You can learn to take joy in it, or you can choose to be unhappy about it.
- analognoise 3y agoIf "it depends" is the answer to "does hard work pay off", then obviously "Hard work is pointless" is true, as it is no longer a guarantee that it will pay off.
- mhss 3y agoThis is silly. A factor may increase your chances significantly yet not be the only factor. This kind of black and white thinking is why people has a hard time navigating life, expecting any kind of guarantees.
- analognoise 3y agoIt’s more silly not to realize that 60 years ago the janitor could buy a house and put the kids through school, 40 years ago you could get a college degree and buy a house as soon as you graduate… And now you get nothing. Sure a few people get lucky - but that’s clearly luck with such obvious systemic issues. Like do you not know people? I know way more people who will never retire or own homes than the opposite. People shouldn’t work hard if the deal gets worse every year. Don’t reinforce this bad system. Tear it down.
- mhss 3y ago> It’s more silly not to realize that 60 years ago the janitor could buy a house and put the kids through school, 40 years ago you could get a college degree and buy a house as soon as you graduate… woah, this a completely different topic. We're talking here about getting promoted. If you want to discuss the topic of how capitalism has degraded the benefits for workers this is not the thread for it. > People shouldn’t work hard if the deal gets worse every year. Don’t reinforce this bad system. Tear it down. You're not "tearing it down" by doing the bare minimum and not getting promoted. You're just hurting your own odds. I did not say work yourself to the bone, there are plenty of ways to show initiative and engagement in your 8hrs at work. re: "tear it down". Replace it with what? we need serious adjustments, but there's no need to descend into anarchy.
- tedivm 3y agoPromotions tend to come with financial incentives as well. I also don't think that, as I've gotten promoted, I've actually taken on that much extra work. The work itself has changed a lot, but it's work I find easier and more enjoyable so for me it almost feels like I'm taking on less. I'm also militant about my work life balance, and maintain very strict hours where I'm reachable.
- mhss 3y agoNot once after a promotion I've been asked to work more than the rough expectation of 8hrs a day (and even that has been flexible). Work conditions vary across companies and it's a shame people gets so cynic that they miss opportunities at good companies.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- dctoedt 3y agoThere's an old story about three bricklayers; the first says "I'm laying bricks to feed my family"; the second says, "I'm building a wall"; the third says, "I'm building a cathedral." [0] One could think of humanity's work as, "we're helping to build a universe." [1] [0] https://sacredstructures.org/mission/the-story-of-three-bricklayers-a-parable-about-the-power-of-purpose/ https://sacredstructures.org/mission/the-story-of-three-bric... — this story supposedly dates back to the 17th century. [1] https://www.questioningchristian.org/2006/06/metanarratives_.html https://www.questioningchristian.org/2006/06/metanarratives_... (self-cite)
- linehedonist 3y agoPress x to doubt. The oldest datable example I can find of the Wren story is from 2000: https://books.google.com/books?id=L5n_uza-hl8C&pg=PA81&dq=Christopher+Wren+observed+three+bricklayers+laying+bricks https://books.google.com/books?id=L5n_uza-hl8C&pg=PA81&dq=Ch...
- dmitrygr 3y agoAt least at Google none of this is true. Finding a project that is visible and being a part of it will get you promoted. Being a go to person will get you a lot of pretty words about how great you are. Nothing else.
- webwanderings 3y agoIt's a same thing everywhere. Hard work makes you a go-to person (at whatever). The go-to person gets you into high visibility projects. You ultimately can bargain your promotion using both of these qualities.
- hiddencost 3y agoThere was a guy I knew at Google who just went around figuring out what everyone was doing on a specific problem, made a bug for each one, and wrote a slide deck where he implied he was responsible for the cumulative result of 30 other teams. He's an L7 now. I really regret telling him what I was working on.
- voiceblue 3y agoPromotion at big orgs tends to be more of a game than anything else. Higher ups like empire building, and promotions (having higher level direct reports) increases their stature while also freeing up headcount at the now-vacant lower level slot(s) to grow their empire. It’s not about what you do at all, it’s just about how you play the game. Many (most?) cases of positioning oneself for promo just involve casting a bigger shadow on the wall by doing the exact same work closer to the flashlight. At L5+, if you are not playing the game you have very little chance of promo (you will have to work harder than any L+1 around), so if you are largely just interested in building and not posturing, you should just switch companies and make a diagonal move (and then, perhaps, come back). This is also why you can’t do anything too risky (regardless of the potential reward) at Google unless you are capable of dishing out promotions - this game is what matters to Googlers, and things that don’t help with the game are efficiently discarded.
- thethethethe 3y ago
- k310 3y agoOne lesson I learned: Don't be the person who knows how to feed paper in the line printer. Or repair the coffee maker. (Nowadays, that might be "Know how to make it work when the internet goes down.") Good article. I wonder if and how it might apply in other fields.
- hyperliner 3y ago[dead]
- kstrauser 3y ago"Do you know how to fix my [hardware device]?" "Nope, no idea." Stick by this religiously.
- phyzome 3y agoIt might help, but it's by no means reliable.
- basscomm 3y agoMy experience has been completely the opposite. Becoming the go-to person is a way to become a load-bearing employee that never gets promoted or otherwise has company mobility because the people who rely on the go-to person need that go-to person to stay exactly where they are.
- packetlost 3y agoAlways saying yes to "go-to person" like asks is a great way to never get anything done and never let anyone else become the "go-to person" for a particular topic. So yeah, if you don't manage it right it can cause issues, but IME being the go-to person is only half of the game: offloading your responsibilities is the other half.
- immawizard 3y agoIn my experience “Go to person” in a mature product has 2 stages: (1) person who performs somewhat repetitive jobs (2) person who is trusted to own projects in a given area Being able to get rid of (1), either through automation or delegation, allows you to go to (2). If you’re stuck on (1) for too long, it’s better to leave.
- wredue 3y agoThis is also my experience. Being a go-to person led to 5 separate instances where a clearly underqualified person was promoted above me, with the company outright stating that I’m too valuable where I am (but also when I asked for more money, I wasn’t THAT valuable). Then when I left they replaced me with 4 people cause losing a decade of deep dive rather than topical knowledge hurts. Had they promoted me, I could have just trained a new person.
- graphe 3y agoAlso joining the chorus. Don't listen to this article. Don't forget not to do this for real life and friends too. If you did anything helpful you're expected to Google their specific problem for them or know how to help them. My friends are used to calling me up to ask for help all the time. If you teach them you know how to fish once, you're their personal expert oceanographer for life.
- hyperliner 3y ago[dead]
- DougHolland 3y agoPlain corporate propaganda. Sorry, no. The harder you work, the harder you're expected to work. Wisdom says, work hard enough to earn your wage, but remember everything that matters in life happens after hours.
- mhss 3y agoIt's more complicated than that. Becoming a go-to person may get you promoted, if the company has an adequate value system. No company is perfect, but they vary a lot and you need to find companies where they at least try to promote the right people.
- oscillonoscope 3y agoIt also depends on what you're the go-to person on and what the promoted position is. Being the expert on some low-level technology isn't necessarily going to help you get promoted to a managerial position or the upper tiers of technical positions.
- mhss 3y agoExactly! it varies by organization and you need to find what your organization cares about, what it values more or less. This is where talking to your manager, observing who gets promoted, etc; The worse organizations are those that say one thing and do another. No organization is perfect, but they're also not equal by far, some of them try to do the right thing, even if imperfectly.
- Ekaros 3y agoSo you need to be the go-to person when someone wants something new and fancy. And then you need to be able to drop it on others when it is done enough. And you move to next fancy new thing... Got it...
- thunkshift1 3y agoI have actually seen this happen in practice.. not saying it’s good or bad, depends on what the person wants. From your comment it seems you are implying this is bad… ? can you explain why
- Ekaros 3y agoQuite often this results in poorly designed systems that are hard to maintain or change. As those doing the initial work and design never had to struggle with changing poorly made systems. And as they are not present, they do not take blame for the issues caused by them.
- throwawaysugar 3y agoIn my experience, becoming a go-to person gets your boss promoted. This was the case in 100% of my roles, until the very last one, when I refused to become this person....and my boss was fired. Sadly through that process my role was orphaned, so I was also let go in the round of 2,000+ layoffs that shortly followed.
- Eumenes 3y agoAnd being the do the minimum person gets you put in the laid off/RIF category. Interestingly, I met up with an old coworker yesterday. We were discussing her new job, she's a senior developer, and comp/pay came up. I was shocked to see her as a promoter of 'pay equity' and she mentioned advocating for it across the team. This is someone who is a talented programmer and could command way more comp than her "peers". I personally believe in the idea of 10x programmer, because I have personally worked with them. They don't have to be super senior either. I worked with a guy who pretty much wrote the entire backend of our web server and knew the entire networking stack. Like a network engineer and Java/JVM performance God in one. He was 4 years out of school. The guy was worth his weight in gold for this company. Pretty sure he was comped way outside of the band for that reason.
- mmcgaha 3y agoThe only time it is rewarding to be the go-to-person is when your job title is Dad.
- __s 3y agoDespite the cynicism here, this worked for me at Microsoft. My role was managing incidents, which I expanded to involve code review (best way to stop an incident is to find it in code review). Fit random development into spare time between developing fixes Working on incidents gets you involved with everything. Promoted annually for four years before promo growth couldn't compete with external offer Having good managers is definitely important
- mhss 3y agoUnfortunately many people get into a vicious circle of cynicism early in their careers that their lack of growth becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
- mjb 3y agoCompletely agree. It's a huge trap, and an easy one to fall into, especially if you're not super careful about which echo chambers you spend time in. My advice is to be thoughtful about your career and understand your company and industry's value system, but avoid cynicism and cynical people.
- guitarbill 3y agoUnfortunately many people listen to terrible advice and get exploited by companies before learning the lesson the hard way. I'd be more inclined to believe your advice if your other comments on this topic was... realistic or actionable I guess? Caution = cynicism, and companies are either "good" (reward hard work) or "shitty" (??? not good?).
- mhss 3y ago> Unfortunately many people listen to terrible advice and get exploited by companies before learning the lesson the hard way. It's my opinion, not particularly advising anyone. > I'd be more inclined to believe your advice if your other comments on this topic was... realistic or actionable I guess? Not really asking you to listen to my "advice", just sharing my perspective. > realistic or actionable I guess? Not being cynic is pretty realistic and actionable. > Caution = cynicism, and companies are either "good" (reward hard work) or "shitty" (??? not good?). That's your understanding. I am a cautious person myself, a bit cynic at times, but they're different things and I'm not the one mixing them up. You are also oversimplifying "good" and "bad" companies. I never said it was sufficient for a company to reward good work to be a good company, but good companies do reward good work (either with promotion or just better comp and benefits). A company that doesn't reward good work is shitty yes, I did not think that was controversial.
- pavluha 3y agoFrom my experience Management likes more: - someone who are loyal to them - someone who knows how to communicate to them in a right way - someone who won't threaten them, being promoted to the new role
- whynot-123 3y agoThis advice is wrong on so many levels. What gets you promoted is being aligned with your leadership and being easy going. You'll get bonus points if your skip level likes you - it usually makes promotions come quicker. Aside from my time at Google, where technical leadership was valued - being the "go-to" person usually gets you more work for the same pay as others in your level. In fact, the "go-to" person on my current team was taken for a ride, exploited for multiple years, and then sacked in a round of layoffs because he became "difficult" (which he had every right to be for his treatment). My advice to young folks would be to join teams with a history of promotion (very important to ask during interviews) and a low turn over rate.
- el-dude-arino 3y agoPrecisely. Becoming the "go-to" person, at best, means that you're going to be too valuable to promote and you'll be exploited to the nth degree.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- d357r0y3r 3y agoMan. Lots of defeatism so far. I understand the points being made, though. Becoming a go-to person is necessary but not sufficient to advance. If all you are is a reliable Swiss army knife for the company, you will indeed be stuck with the salary and station of a reliable Swiss army knife. The tricky part is to be able to decouple the "knowing" and the "doing." If you know how to do all the work, and you also actually do it, yes, you become the infinite sink for all of those things. If you can, instead, be a sink of knowledge and wisdom, e.g. "here's how I'd approach the problem", "maybe you should connect with Joe in...", "hasn't this problem already been solved with...", that starts to look more like L6+ behavior. It's the hardest pill to swallow for builders, though - that you can never be good enough at pure building to justify promotion beyond senior level. It's like professional sports. If you're a greater shooter but you can't get other people involved, there's a hard cap on how far your team can go and how far your career will go.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- kderbyma 3y agoThat's like saying you can get a big feast, and be king if you are willing to be the sacrifice afterwards. promotion for promotion sake is unhealthy, and a symptom of a culture losing its identity
- sneed_chucker 3y agoDifferent stuff gets you promoted in different places. I've absolutely worked at organizations where technical prowess and high output were rewarded with raises and promotions. But for the most part, doing an ok job combined with being liked by your supervisor is far more effective.
- fifilura 3y agoI am currently exhausted by being the go-to person at my job. There are 4 types of questions 1. Questions from architects/leads 2. Questions from peers which learn from what I am saying 3. Questions from peers which do not learn but wants me to do their job 4. Questions from product owners Naturally 5. Own work - suffers. 1, 2 & 4 are ok. I would like to get rid of 3. I think my way out would be to promoting 2. to help me with 1, 3 and 4. So I can do more of 5.
- fifilura 3y agoSo to relate to the original story here. If you don't get promoted, there is a risk that you become the guy that is just there to solve everyone else's problem.
- ChrisParker 3y ago[dead]