3 ms·

I completely disagree with this notion. Many cannot afford it, most can easily. If you are driving a relatively modern car and have no small $350 gas generato

by phil21 3y ago

I completely disagree with this notion. Many cannot afford it, most can easily. If you are driving a relatively modern car and have no small $350 gas generator at home for emergencies I absolutely question your priorities in life. Nearly everyone in the nation could come up with $500 over a few years. They simply choose to spend it elsewhere. Home owners have utterly zero excuses. It should be the first thing you buy after your home.

nkrisc 3y ago
A full third of Americans are renters, and that’s to say nothing of those who live paycheck to paycheck even though they are (mortgaged) homeowners. > Nearly everyone in the nation could come up with $500 over a few years. They simply choose to spend it elsewhere. How out of touch this is depends on what exactly you mean by “nearly everyone.”
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Somewhere around 95% of people, I expect.
whaleofatw2022 3y ago
The problem until recently was that gas generators are, in many places, banned. Apartments are a no go, many condos, and even some house HOAs do not allow them. Now, lithium backup packs are a thing. However, for any extended needs you will probably also want solar panels or some other way to recharge, and you may need a second battery so that you can recharge one while using the other (the units I purchased do not allow discharge while charging)
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  Nobody cares about that when there is a once in a lifetime natural disaster and your choice is charge a medical device or die
acdha 3y ago
Yes, they could come with the money but it’d require sacrifices elsewhere. More importantly, however, that’s like saying the cost of car ownership is the purchase price of the vehicle: you don’t just buy a generator once and leave it untouched for decades - you need to have somewhere safe to operate it, store clean fuel safely, test it regularly, have your electrical system modified to allow a switchover, make sure to winterize in most of the country, etc. Every year people have fires, shorts, carbon monoxide poisoning, or unexpected outages from some detail of that going wrong. Now, consider who tends to have the greatest problems when the power goes out for an extended period of time: the elderly, poor, and disabled people who have the most challenges doing that. Saying that everyone should maintain their own personal auxiliary power supply so the energy providers can be more profitable is the same as saying that it’s okay for those people to die because they aren’t rich enough.
- tzs 3y ago
  > you need to have somewhere safe to operate it, store clean fuel safely, test it regularly, have your electrical system modified to allow a switchover, make sure to winterize in most of the country, etc. It's bad, but not quite that bad. The person who suggested a generator was talking about the case of people who have some life threatening condition that they need electricity to survive. In most cases that will mean they only have to use the generator to power a small number of things. In that case they don't need to modify their electrical system. They can power their things from the generator's normal household outlets. They just need long enough extension cords to get from wherever they have to put the generator to their life saving devices. They'd probably only need a small generator, maybe a couple thousand watts. Those are light enough (20ish kg) and small enough (small suitcase sized) that it should be easy to store indoors when not actually in use. That should get rid of most of the hassle of winterizing. Go for a propane generator instead of a gasoline generator. They produce much less dangerous emissions than gasoline generators so should be easier to find someplace safe to operate. Also stored propane does not go bad over time, like stored gasoline, so you don't need to rotate your fuel. Propane tanks are also safer than gasoline tanks so propane is easier to store safely.
  - galleywest200 3y ago
senorjohnmega 3y ago
I live in Texas. While my house was being built, I spent 8 months in an apartment complex to save money (it was just before housing prices and rent skyrocketed across the nation) and I gained a whole new appreciation and perspective over what "paycheck to paycheck" meant for people. I always assumed it meant they got what I thought were necessities but had no spare money. It was eye opening making friends in that apartment complex because month to month for them meant they often went a paycheck with something otherwise critical deferred to another paycheck. They were mastercraftsmen in robbing peter to pay paul, so to speak. I understand your sentiment of investing in some life saving gear that is cheap for its great value. But I would encourage you to widen your perspective and understand that when faced with the decision to pay for groceries and car insurance to ensure one can keep working, or put back money for a gas generator for something used every 4 years, they're going to pick no interruption to groceries and car insurance. And rightly so. If you're of the type that promotes larger government, you need to write to your government to encourage them to provide this equipment out of their taxes. If you're of the type that promotes less government, you need to write to your government to encourage them to tax less and/or provide tangible tax breaks for this equipment a la solar.
lupusreal 3y ago
You've got replies telling you that you're wrong about what people can afford. I'll tell you that you're wrong about what people should be prioritizing: Millions of Texans lost power, only a few hundred died. For most people losing power really isn't a big deal they need to be super concerned about. They get more blankets out of the closet and carry on just fine. People vulnerable to freezing to death in a few days without power are a small minority; it's pretty much just very elderly people without much sense living alone and infants with very neglectful parents.

by phil21 3y ago

nkrisc 3y ago

A full third of Americans are renters, and that’s to say nothing of those who live paycheck to paycheck even though they are (mortgaged) homeowners. > Nearly everyone in the nation could come up with $500 over a few years. They simply choose to spend it elsewhere. How out of touch this is depends on what exactly you mean by “nearly everyone.”

s1artibartfast 3y ago
Somewhere around 95% of people, I expect.

whaleofatw2022 3y ago

The problem until recently was that gas generators are, in many places, banned. Apartments are a no go, many condos, and even some house HOAs do not allow them. Now, lithium backup packs are a thing. However, for any extended needs you will probably also want solar panels or some other way to recharge, and you may need a second battery so that you can recharge one while using the other (the units I purchased do not allow discharge while charging)

s1artibartfast 3y ago
Nobody cares about that when there is a once in a lifetime natural disaster and your choice is charge a medical device or die

acdha 3y ago

Yes, they could come with the money but it’d require sacrifices elsewhere. More importantly, however, that’s like saying the cost of car ownership is the purchase price of the vehicle: you don’t just buy a generator once and leave it untouched for decades - you need to have somewhere safe to operate it, store clean fuel safely, test it regularly, have your electrical system modified to allow a switchover, make sure to winterize in most of the country, etc. Every year people have fires, shorts, carbon monoxide poisoning, or unexpected outages from some detail of that going wrong. Now, consider who tends to have the greatest problems when the power goes out for an extended period of time: the elderly, poor, and disabled people who have the most challenges doing that. Saying that everyone should maintain their own personal auxiliary power supply so the energy providers can be more profitable is the same as saying that it’s okay for those people to die because they aren’t rich enough.

tzs 3y ago
> you need to have somewhere safe to operate it, store clean fuel safely, test it regularly, have your electrical system modified to allow a switchover, make sure to winterize in most of the country, etc. It's bad, but not quite that bad. The person who suggested a generator was talking about the case of people who have some life threatening condition that they need electricity to survive. In most cases that will mean they only have to use the generator to power a small number of things. In that case they don't need to modify their electrical system. They can power their things from the generator's normal household outlets. They just need long enough extension cords to get from wherever they have to put the generator to their life saving devices. They'd probably only need a small generator, maybe a couple thousand watts. Those are light enough (20ish kg) and small enough (small suitcase sized) that it should be easy to store indoors when not actually in use. That should get rid of most of the hassle of winterizing. Go for a propane generator instead of a gasoline generator. They produce much less dangerous emissions than gasoline generators so should be easier to find someplace safe to operate. Also stored propane does not go bad over time, like stored gasoline, so you don't need to rotate your fuel. Propane tanks are also safer than gasoline tanks so propane is easier to store safely.
- galleywest200 3y ago

senorjohnmega 3y ago

I live in Texas. While my house was being built, I spent 8 months in an apartment complex to save money (it was just before housing prices and rent skyrocketed across the nation) and I gained a whole new appreciation and perspective over what "paycheck to paycheck" meant for people. I always assumed it meant they got what I thought were necessities but had no spare money. It was eye opening making friends in that apartment complex because month to month for them meant they often went a paycheck with something otherwise critical deferred to another paycheck. They were mastercraftsmen in robbing peter to pay paul, so to speak. I understand your sentiment of investing in some life saving gear that is cheap for its great value. But I would encourage you to widen your perspective and understand that when faced with the decision to pay for groceries and car insurance to ensure one can keep working, or put back money for a gas generator for something used every 4 years, they're going to pick no interruption to groceries and car insurance. And rightly so. If you're of the type that promotes larger government, you need to write to your government to encourage them to provide this equipment out of their taxes. If you're of the type that promotes less government, you need to write to your government to encourage them to tax less and/or provide tangible tax breaks for this equipment a la solar.

lupusreal 3y ago

You've got replies telling you that you're wrong about what people can afford. I'll tell you that you're wrong about what people should be prioritizing: Millions of Texans lost power, only a few hundred died. For most people losing power really isn't a big deal they need to be super concerned about. They get more blankets out of the closet and carry on just fine. People vulnerable to freezing to death in a few days without power are a small minority; it's pretty much just very elderly people without much sense living alone and infants with very neglectful parents.