7 ms·

This is one of the things I find quite surreal about the US. How is it not government's responsibility to ensure citizens have access to basic utilities?

halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
The voters voted in politicians who make sure this isnt the government's responsibility. This is democracy in action.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  It has been this way from the start of the nation.
- acdha 3y ago
  Kind of: none of this was agreed to by a majority of the people – the entire United States law was originally drafted by white male landowners, and Texas has relied heavily on creative policies around voting since the civil rights era banned outright prevention - and over time these principles reinterpretation over time by judges who usually are not popularly elected. That puts us in an interesting situation where nobody voted directly for a position most voters wouldn’t agree to but there isn’t a single villain to vote out or a simple ballot initiative to put in the next election. If you asked whether there should be no obligation to provide power, for anyone to show up when you call 9/11, etc. most people would say that’s wrong but have a daunting path to change it.
- awakeasleep 3y ago
  this would be more true if we had a direct democracy, but the USA is a republic where the people have at best an indirect influence on policy.
  - halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
    It still true in youre electing people who have positions, options and predispositions that are, for all intents and purposes, known by the electors. Yes, you could argue that individuals running for election have hidden agendas, but you can apply simple principals to most individuals running for office and assume their intentions/actions/etc.
dubcanada 3y ago
I think there is a difference between "access to basic utilities" and the power is down because a power station caught on fire for example. Access to basic utilities is provided, but uptime is not 100% and never will be. And nobody can expect them to be, if you have a life threatening issue which requires 24/7 power, you should have a backup like a generator that automatically kicks on for your life providing machine, and maybe even a third backup. Same as if you host something that needs 3 9s of uptime, you have a primary host and a backup host or region or what ever.
- pests 3y ago
  Kinda? Fire service is not provided everywhere. Some cities you have to hire your own / purchase a plan. Granted a lot of cities just factor it into taxes but it's not a mandate to provide.
  - blkhawk 3y ago
    I kinda feel obligated to point out that this is another orphan crusher machine thing. In most countries fire service is just provided everywhere.
    - Kon-Peki 3y ago
      I suspect that the list of countries in which 100% of the territory, with no exceptions, will have a fire brigade arrive in time to do anything productive is a lot smaller than you think it is.
    - lttlrck 3y ago
      The "most" of the US fire service is just provided everywhere. But the US is also a very big place with big empty spaces filled with very small communities. Along with strong devolution in governance, there are "some" very remote communities where the population cannot support a permanent local fire service and relies on locally organized volunteers. They can choose to fund that in a variety of ways, by taxes/subs combination. And of course you may live so remotely that even that is not realistic. I very much doubt the US is unique on this point.
tehwebguy 3y ago
This is how everything here works. People who get involved enough to learn how something works stay winning and people who think they do get burned. Same as insurance, credit cards, real estate, investing, the justice system, health, education, pretty much everything. Also, every one of these potential pitfalls has a zillion dollar budget hyper focused on tricking you through advertising.
sneak 3y ago
The police also have no legal obligation to prevent or even to respond to crime. We somehow still have an obligation to pay their salaries, though.

halfmatthalfcat 3y ago

The voters voted in politicians who make sure this isnt the government's responsibility. This is democracy in action.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
It has been this way from the start of the nation.
acdha 3y ago
Kind of: none of this was agreed to by a majority of the people – the entire United States law was originally drafted by white male landowners, and Texas has relied heavily on creative policies around voting since the civil rights era banned outright prevention - and over time these principles reinterpretation over time by judges who usually are not popularly elected. That puts us in an interesting situation where nobody voted directly for a position most voters wouldn’t agree to but there isn’t a single villain to vote out or a simple ballot initiative to put in the next election. If you asked whether there should be no obligation to provide power, for anyone to show up when you call 9/11, etc. most people would say that’s wrong but have a daunting path to change it.
awakeasleep 3y ago
this would be more true if we had a direct democracy, but the USA is a republic where the people have at best an indirect influence on policy.
- halfmatthalfcat 3y ago
  It still true in youre electing people who have positions, options and predispositions that are, for all intents and purposes, known by the electors. Yes, you could argue that individuals running for election have hidden agendas, but you can apply simple principals to most individuals running for office and assume their intentions/actions/etc.

dubcanada 3y ago

I think there is a difference between "access to basic utilities" and the power is down because a power station caught on fire for example. Access to basic utilities is provided, but uptime is not 100% and never will be. And nobody can expect them to be, if you have a life threatening issue which requires 24/7 power, you should have a backup like a generator that automatically kicks on for your life providing machine, and maybe even a third backup. Same as if you host something that needs 3 9s of uptime, you have a primary host and a backup host or region or what ever.

pests 3y ago
Kinda? Fire service is not provided everywhere. Some cities you have to hire your own / purchase a plan. Granted a lot of cities just factor it into taxes but it's not a mandate to provide.
- blkhawk 3y ago
  I kinda feel obligated to point out that this is another orphan crusher machine thing. In most countries fire service is just provided everywhere.
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    I suspect that the list of countries in which 100% of the territory, with no exceptions, will have a fire brigade arrive in time to do anything productive is a lot smaller than you think it is.
  - lttlrck 3y ago
    The "most" of the US fire service is just provided everywhere. But the US is also a very big place with big empty spaces filled with very small communities. Along with strong devolution in governance, there are "some" very remote communities where the population cannot support a permanent local fire service and relies on locally organized volunteers. They can choose to fund that in a variety of ways, by taxes/subs combination. And of course you may live so remotely that even that is not realistic. I very much doubt the US is unique on this point.

tehwebguy 3y ago

This is how everything here works. People who get involved enough to learn how something works stay winning and people who think they do get burned. Same as insurance, credit cards, real estate, investing, the justice system, health, education, pretty much everything. Also, every one of these potential pitfalls has a zillion dollar budget hyper focused on tricking you through advertising.

sneak 3y ago

The police also have no legal obligation to prevent or even to respond to crime. We somehow still have an obligation to pay their salaries, though.