3 ms·

> the sentence associated with a plea bargain already is the sentence that is felt to be appropriate for the crime That's not true. Plea bargains can be incre

by refurb 3y ago

> the sentence associated with a plea bargain already is the sentence that is felt to be appropriate for the crime That's not true. Plea bargains can be incredibly minor punishments versus the crime. Plea bargains are the flip side of the prosecutions options. If the prosecutor thinks it's a slam dunk, they have little incentive to offer a plea bargain at all - if they do, it may be a very severe sentence. If the prosecution thinks their odds of a win are low, they may offer a very lenient sentence, even for very serious crimes. But who goes to trial comparing their outcome to other trials? A individual is looking at a specific situation - their own trial. They have no idea about the circumstances of other trials - whether defendants were truly innocent, or how much evidence the prosecution had. You may be charged with murder, and another defendant got a plea bargain of only 1 year in prison for manslaughter. But the prosecution has a rock solid case so your plea bargain is life in prison. It's a singular decision of the defendant, usually with input from their lawyer. They'll need to determine their own likelihood of being found "not guilty" and decide if the risk is worth it versus the reduced sentence being offered.

thaumasiotes 3y ago
> If the prosecutor thinks it's a slam dunk, they have little incentive to offer a plea bargain at all - if they do, it may be a very severe sentence. You have no idea how prosecutors act. Slam dunk cases are pled. Most cases are slam dunks. With plea bargains determining the sentence in 97% of cases, it isn't possible for those sentences to be felt to be lighter than appropriate. That would cause a political crisis.
mrkeen 3y ago
> If the prosecutor thinks it's a slam dunk, they have little incentive to offer a plea bargain at all > 97% of convictions are based on plea bargains Taken together, these mean prosecutors generally don't have good enough evidence to put people away, which is the thrust of the article: it's easier to threaten someone into a confession than to have a proper trial.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > Taken together, these mean prosecutors generally don't have good enough evidence to put people away Note that while you're correct about what those statements would mean in combination, refurb's statement is false. There is very little point in examining what would follow from the invented claims of someone with no idea what he's talking about.
- refurb 3y ago
  > Taken together, these mean prosecutors generally don't have good enough evidence to put people away, which is the thrust of the article: it's easier to threaten someone into a confession than to have a proper trial. Generally? No. Sometimes? Sure. And yes, you could view it as a threat. That's the nature of a adversarial justic system. The same way that police will tell you they'll arrest you for standing on a sidewalk. It's often an empty threat. It's why we provide legal services to defendants. So you can have a trained lawyer look at the evidence and tell you what you chances are of a not guilty verdict. Then the defendant can decide if a chance at not guilty is worth turning down a plea bargain.
  - watwut 3y ago
    > The same way that police will tell you they'll arrest you for standing on a sidewalk. That is police abuse tho. In a sane controlled police system, no they can not threaten you with arrest for standing on a sidewalk. > It's why we provide legal services to defendants Public defenders are notoriously overburdened and have massively limited resources. They are less likely to get you bail and you are much easier to be coerced when you wait in jail for months.
- daedrdev 3y ago
  Or it means they don’t have enough resources to run a trial for every case they believe they will win. , and so give out plea bargins to reduce the number of trials

by refurb 3y ago

thaumasiotes 3y ago

> If the prosecutor thinks it's a slam dunk, they have little incentive to offer a plea bargain at all - if they do, it may be a very severe sentence. You have no idea how prosecutors act. Slam dunk cases are pled. Most cases are slam dunks. With plea bargains determining the sentence in 97% of cases, it isn't possible for those sentences to be felt to be lighter than appropriate. That would cause a political crisis.

mrkeen 3y ago

> If the prosecutor thinks it's a slam dunk, they have little incentive to offer a plea bargain at all > 97% of convictions are based on plea bargains Taken together, these mean prosecutors generally don't have good enough evidence to put people away, which is the thrust of the article: it's easier to threaten someone into a confession than to have a proper trial.

thaumasiotes 3y ago
> Taken together, these mean prosecutors generally don't have good enough evidence to put people away Note that while you're correct about what those statements would mean in combination, refurb's statement is false. There is very little point in examining what would follow from the invented claims of someone with no idea what he's talking about.
refurb 3y ago
> Taken together, these mean prosecutors generally don't have good enough evidence to put people away, which is the thrust of the article: it's easier to threaten someone into a confession than to have a proper trial. Generally? No. Sometimes? Sure. And yes, you could view it as a threat. That's the nature of a adversarial justic system. The same way that police will tell you they'll arrest you for standing on a sidewalk. It's often an empty threat. It's why we provide legal services to defendants. So you can have a trained lawyer look at the evidence and tell you what you chances are of a not guilty verdict. Then the defendant can decide if a chance at not guilty is worth turning down a plea bargain.
- watwut 3y ago
  > The same way that police will tell you they'll arrest you for standing on a sidewalk. That is police abuse tho. In a sane controlled police system, no they can not threaten you with arrest for standing on a sidewalk. > It's why we provide legal services to defendants Public defenders are notoriously overburdened and have massively limited resources. They are less likely to get you bail and you are much easier to be coerced when you wait in jail for months.
daedrdev 3y ago
Or it means they don’t have enough resources to run a trial for every case they believe they will win. , and so give out plea bargins to reduce the number of trials