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The solution could be a cryptocurrency which can be mined in the browser. Hashcash, which was one of the inspirations for Bitcoin, was initially invented to pre

The solution could be a cryptocurrency which can be mined in the browser. Hashcash, which was one of the inspirations for Bitcoin, was initially invented to prevent email spam. Consumer devices have a lot of spare CPU and RAM. So a proof-of-work algorithm which consumes those resources for a minute might work? If it generates $0.01 for the website owner in that minute, maybe that would work?

insanitybit 3y ago
Wouldn't any proof of work be just as easy for a computer to achieve as a human?
- trompetenaccoun 3y ago
  'Proof of Work' as it's generally understood is done by computers only. But I guess I understand what you're asking and the answer is yes, that is a problem. For Sybil resistance it's better to know if someone is a unique human, not if they're a machine that has paid the toll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_personhood There are exotic solutions like the 'Idena Network'. But sadly I have to admit the best solution I've seen so far is Sam Altman's Worldcoin. Not that I'm a fan, I still hope we can find something better than scanning everyone's eyeball.
- CaptainFever 3y ago
  Yes, but it's more of an anti spam measure.
- SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
  Yeah but it would cost spammers who want to impersonate a large number of humans at once
swinglock 3y ago
Proof of work can already be implemented without a token. Tor has such a feature for denial of service protection. https://blog.torproject.org/introducing-proof-of-work-defense-for-onion-services/ https://blog.torproject.org/introducing-proof-of-work-defens... A benefit of a token is you can recycle previous proof of work by using a small amount of Bitcoin, which could be transferred using Lightning. The value could also be transferred back some amount of time after registration given no bad behavior, allowing for larger sums than a cent, which could provide better protection.
- ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
  With a token, you probably get a higher efficiency. Similar to how a heatpump is more efficient than a heater. If you only consume resources on the client side, then you hope that an attacker thinks "I won't invest $0.01 of resources just to log in here". If you also transfer the consumed resources to the server, you get an additional benefit: The server thinks "$0.01 is enough to cover the costs of a fake signup". And the second benefit is probably even better than the first. The server will never really know how cheaply attackers can access resources. But they probably know how much a fake signup costs them.
  - trompetenaccoun 3y ago
    I think a fairer solution will be some form of proof of personhood that isn't PoW-based. Your idea isn't bad but it gives more power to those who can afford a lot of devices. You know those Chinese mobile phone click farms they use to game app stores? It will be like that, PoW can prevent spam only to a certain degree and with all the social media and networks we have today there is a lot of money in influencing the users. So spending a few million dollars on devices can be very profitable if it lets you boost certain messages.
    - swinglock 3y ago
      But is it worth billions? You just need to increase the cost 1000 fold and pay it back after a holding period to implement that. The drawback is it gets a lot more complex when using a token, because of the additional state, communication, costs and security. A one shot proof of work can be very simple, but probably not effective enough, given that mobile users likely do not want to wait what may have to be many minutes and drain their battery. Freezing a cent or a dollar for days seems like a better option. Might very well be that VISA/MasterCard figures this out before the crypto bros build anything usable. It will be far easier to do without decentralization and would also be great to spy on and control people.
      - salawat 3y ago
ric2b 3y ago
Those devices have a lot of spare CPU and RAM but basically no spare battery capacity.
sideshowb 3y ago
Just what we need, another way to waste energy
tarruda 3y ago
That is a very interesting concept
plsbenice34 3y ago
It works well, for example with Monero's proof of work algorithm that is purposely designed for consumer hardware. There was an irrational turn against it because some websites did it without consent. I would so much prefer to mine to view a site than have to be exposed to ads and captchas...

insanitybit 3y ago

Wouldn't any proof of work be just as easy for a computer to achieve as a human?

trompetenaccoun 3y ago
'Proof of Work' as it's generally understood is done by computers only. But I guess I understand what you're asking and the answer is yes, that is a problem. For Sybil resistance it's better to know if someone is a unique human, not if they're a machine that has paid the toll: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_personhood There are exotic solutions like the 'Idena Network'. But sadly I have to admit the best solution I've seen so far is Sam Altman's Worldcoin. Not that I'm a fan, I still hope we can find something better than scanning everyone's eyeball.
CaptainFever 3y ago
Yes, but it's more of an anti spam measure.
SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
Yeah but it would cost spammers who want to impersonate a large number of humans at once

swinglock 3y ago

Proof of work can already be implemented without a token. Tor has such a feature for denial of service protection. https://blog.torproject.org/introducing-proof-of-work-defense-for-onion-services/ https://blog.torproject.org/introducing-proof-of-work-defens... A benefit of a token is you can recycle previous proof of work by using a small amount of Bitcoin, which could be transferred using Lightning. The value could also be transferred back some amount of time after registration given no bad behavior, allowing for larger sums than a cent, which could provide better protection.

ArtTimeInvestor 3y ago
With a token, you probably get a higher efficiency. Similar to how a heatpump is more efficient than a heater. If you only consume resources on the client side, then you hope that an attacker thinks "I won't invest $0.01 of resources just to log in here". If you also transfer the consumed resources to the server, you get an additional benefit: The server thinks "$0.01 is enough to cover the costs of a fake signup". And the second benefit is probably even better than the first. The server will never really know how cheaply attackers can access resources. But they probably know how much a fake signup costs them.
- trompetenaccoun 3y ago
  I think a fairer solution will be some form of proof of personhood that isn't PoW-based. Your idea isn't bad but it gives more power to those who can afford a lot of devices. You know those Chinese mobile phone click farms they use to game app stores? It will be like that, PoW can prevent spam only to a certain degree and with all the social media and networks we have today there is a lot of money in influencing the users. So spending a few million dollars on devices can be very profitable if it lets you boost certain messages.
  - swinglock 3y ago
    But is it worth billions? You just need to increase the cost 1000 fold and pay it back after a holding period to implement that. The drawback is it gets a lot more complex when using a token, because of the additional state, communication, costs and security. A one shot proof of work can be very simple, but probably not effective enough, given that mobile users likely do not want to wait what may have to be many minutes and drain their battery. Freezing a cent or a dollar for days seems like a better option. Might very well be that VISA/MasterCard figures this out before the crypto bros build anything usable. It will be far easier to do without decentralization and would also be great to spy on and control people.
    - salawat 3y ago

ric2b 3y ago

Those devices have a lot of spare CPU and RAM but basically no spare battery capacity.

sideshowb 3y ago

Just what we need, another way to waste energy

tarruda 3y ago

That is a very interesting concept

plsbenice34 3y ago

It works well, for example with Monero's proof of work algorithm that is purposely designed for consumer hardware. There was an irrational turn against it because some websites did it without consent. I would so much prefer to mine to view a site than have to be exposed to ads and captchas...