5 ms·

> It kind of is. They replaced the standard messaging app with a proprietary alternative, and then othered and ostracized users of non-Apple platforms who tried

by sbuk 3y ago

> It kind of is. They replaced the standard messaging app with a proprietary alternative, and then othered and ostracized users of non-Apple platforms who tried to use the standard. Nope. SMS and MMS were still present, and as they were at the time iMessage was introduced, the only global messaging standard. Apple has also commited to bring another standard to the platform in RCS. The notion that iMessage is a standard is wrong. It's an unpublished/private API. To call it a protocol would also be wrong.

PrimeMcFly 3y ago
> Nope. Well, yeah. > SMS and MMS were still present, I never said otherwise. But they made iMessage the default and gave it priority. > Apple has also commited to bring another standard to the platform in RCS. Too little too late. > The notion that iMessage is a standard is wrong. In the US it's a de facto standard. People get punished if they use SMS/MMS/RCS.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- sbuk 3y ago
  > Well, yeah. You said > "They replaced the standard messaging app with a proprietary alternative" Nope. SMS and MMS. > Too little to late. Thanks. I thought you were here in bad faith, now I know you are. > In the US it's a de facto standard. People get punished if they use SMS/MMS/RCS. Good grief! Beeper isn't the answer. A few months ago it was all about how anti-competitive Apple were because no RCS. Now RCS it "too little to late"? Why are you all so damned incapable of using alternatives? This is as self-inflicted "problem".
  - PrimeMcFly 3y ago
    > Nope. SMS and MMS. This is simply incorrect. iMessage is the default for iPhones. > Thanks. I thought you were here in bad faith, now I know you are. I'm not here in bad faith at all. Adding RCS support won't do much to fix the division apples has caused between iPhone users and other phone users. > Good grief! Beeper isn't the answer. It's definitely a step in the right direction. Forcing Apple to be more open with iMessage is a good thing for consumers. > A few months ago it was all about how anti-competitive Apple were because no RCS. Now RCS it "too little to late"? They should have been using RCS from the start and cooperated with and contributed to the standard. Now, yeah it's pretty late and won't fix the problem they have caused. > Whay are you all so damned incapable of using alternatives? This is as self-inflicted "problem". Because in the US Apple users insist on using iMessage.
    - sbuk 3y ago
      > This is simply incorrect. iMessage is the default for iPhones. You're an Android user, right? Suffice to say that you are wrong. Messages.app, not iMessage is the default. It is designed to handle SMS, MMS and Apple iMessage service. iMessage exists for Apple-to-Apple messaging and for those iPhone customers that choose not to have a carrier messaging plan. This is not an opinion. > I'm not here in bad faith at all. Adding RCS support won't do much to fix the division apples has caused between iPhone users and other phone users. What? That is certainly a take. I can't say anymore for fear of causing offence. In all sincerity and candor - you really do come across as someone with a chip on their shoulder. > It's definitely a step in the right direction. Forcing Apple to be more open with iMessage is a good thing for consumers. > They should have been using RCS from the start and cooperated with and contributed to the standard. Now, yeah it's pretty late and won't fix the problem they have caused. So RCS will "fix" most of the "problems they have caused" here. What's more the main barrier, as ever, has been carrier adoption. Google only really started to push for RCS after miserably failing to deliver a coherent messaging platform strategy and releasing Google Messages in 2019. Whats more, their suposedly "open" E2EE RCS implementation is only available for Pixel and Samsung users. The carrier RCS landscape is a mess globally, with little to no use outside of US carriers, who have either switched to Google (privacy concerns) or have recently (last 5 years) added support for Universal Profile. By the way, the GSMA are a carrier-only body. Neither Google nor Apple were involved in the creation of RCS. Not that it matters as adoption by GSMA members has been, if I'm being generous, laughably slow. Google are involved by virtue of their acquisition of Jibe. Remind me, who is responsible for this problem? > Because in the US Apple users insist on using iMessage. Why is that? See above... Edit: The issue I, and it seems many others have with Beepers approach is the commercialisation of someone else's property. Like it or not, de facto or not, iMessages is a private API. Hacking it for kicks is fine. Commercialising it is not. Bragging about to one one the big tech firms is going to end in tears. The merits of iMessages being open are obvious, but it's seems to be a market in which Apple doesn't want to be in. The service exists for customers of Apple's products and is directly tied to hardware ownership.

by sbuk 3y ago

PrimeMcFly 3y ago

> Nope. Well, yeah. > SMS and MMS were still present, I never said otherwise. But they made iMessage the default and gave it priority. > Apple has also commited to bring another standard to the platform in RCS. Too little too late. > The notion that iMessage is a standard is wrong. In the US it's a de facto standard. People get punished if they use SMS/MMS/RCS.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sbuk 3y ago
> Well, yeah. You said > "They replaced the standard messaging app with a proprietary alternative" Nope. SMS and MMS. > Too little to late. Thanks. I thought you were here in bad faith, now I know you are. > In the US it's a de facto standard. People get punished if they use SMS/MMS/RCS. Good grief! Beeper isn't the answer. A few months ago it was all about how anti-competitive Apple were because no RCS. Now RCS it "too little to late"? Why are you all so damned incapable of using alternatives? This is as self-inflicted "problem".
- PrimeMcFly 3y ago
  > Nope. SMS and MMS. This is simply incorrect. iMessage is the default for iPhones. > Thanks. I thought you were here in bad faith, now I know you are. I'm not here in bad faith at all. Adding RCS support won't do much to fix the division apples has caused between iPhone users and other phone users. > Good grief! Beeper isn't the answer. It's definitely a step in the right direction. Forcing Apple to be more open with iMessage is a good thing for consumers. > A few months ago it was all about how anti-competitive Apple were because no RCS. Now RCS it "too little to late"? They should have been using RCS from the start and cooperated with and contributed to the standard. Now, yeah it's pretty late and won't fix the problem they have caused. > Whay are you all so damned incapable of using alternatives? This is as self-inflicted "problem". Because in the US Apple users insist on using iMessage.
  - sbuk 3y ago
    > This is simply incorrect. iMessage is the default for iPhones. You're an Android user, right? Suffice to say that you are wrong. Messages.app, not iMessage is the default. It is designed to handle SMS, MMS and Apple iMessage service. iMessage exists for Apple-to-Apple messaging and for those iPhone customers that choose not to have a carrier messaging plan. This is not an opinion. > I'm not here in bad faith at all. Adding RCS support won't do much to fix the division apples has caused between iPhone users and other phone users. What? That is certainly a take. I can't say anymore for fear of causing offence. In all sincerity and candor - you really do come across as someone with a chip on their shoulder. > It's definitely a step in the right direction. Forcing Apple to be more open with iMessage is a good thing for consumers. > They should have been using RCS from the start and cooperated with and contributed to the standard. Now, yeah it's pretty late and won't fix the problem they have caused. So RCS will "fix" most of the "problems they have caused" here. What's more the main barrier, as ever, has been carrier adoption. Google only really started to push for RCS after miserably failing to deliver a coherent messaging platform strategy and releasing Google Messages in 2019. Whats more, their suposedly "open" E2EE RCS implementation is only available for Pixel and Samsung users. The carrier RCS landscape is a mess globally, with little to no use outside of US carriers, who have either switched to Google (privacy concerns) or have recently (last 5 years) added support for Universal Profile. By the way, the GSMA are a carrier-only body. Neither Google nor Apple were involved in the creation of RCS. Not that it matters as adoption by GSMA members has been, if I'm being generous, laughably slow. Google are involved by virtue of their acquisition of Jibe. Remind me, who is responsible for this problem? > Because in the US Apple users insist on using iMessage. Why is that? See above... Edit: The issue I, and it seems many others have with Beepers approach is the commercialisation of someone else's property. Like it or not, de facto or not, iMessages is a private API. Hacking it for kicks is fine. Commercialising it is not. Bragging about to one one the big tech firms is going to end in tears. The merits of iMessages being open are obvious, but it's seems to be a market in which Apple doesn't want to be in. The service exists for customers of Apple's products and is directly tied to hardware ownership.