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> My understanding of crypto (having worked in the industry for years) is that it's not about decentralisation so much as it is about reliability and transparen

> My understanding of crypto (having worked in the industry for years) is that it's not about decentralisation so much as it is about reliability and transparency. None of those have panned out. Reliability and transparency aren't there either, because the state of crypto so far is that people keep on falling for scam after scam and getting screwed. No, just like with the original concept of "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System", there's very few true believers that are into it for any such reasons like decentralization, reliability or transparency. The vast, vast majority just wants to get rich. It's that simple. The technical merits or characteristics of the underlying system are completely unimportant to the vast majority.

jongjong 3y ago
That's because quality projects are being suppressed. Governments have been working hard to destroy crypto's reputation by enabling scams. When I worked in crypto, the projects that were receiving EU government funding were usually scams or had a scam aspect to them. The agencies which were supposed to regulate the industry often turned a blind eye to obvious misconduct and suppressed small projects. Why did FTX get away with it for so long? You think the government had no idea? Even I suspected something fishy and I didn't even try to look. In any case, individuals should be allowed to choose their monetary system and not be coerced into a specific scam which is what the fiat system is. If people could choose who their scammer is, that is already progress from what we have now.
- nullc 3y ago
  People made SEC and FTC complaints about both FTX and the Earn program at Gemini which received no attention. I think the theory that they're intentionally enabling scams though fails occam's razor. A simpler explanation is that they're lazy and dysfunctional, it's much much easier to prosecute a scam AFTER its vanished everyone money than before.
  - jongjong 3y ago
    It reminds me of Grey's law "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." At that point you may as well admit the system is malicious by design as its complexity facilitates advanced incompetence.
    - nullc 3y ago
      Maybe, but are we worse off with enforcement bodies that fail to go after many things than with none at all? As far as the sponsorship. I think that is largely due to the general advantage scams have: Real systems have limits and honest people will be willing to admit to them. A scam can promise the moon because they're not beholden to the truth or reality. Parties who aren't thoughtful will flock to the scams that promise them all they want to hear: "Our blockchain is green, organic, whole food, and promotes equality for disenfranchised African dwarfs at unlimited scale!" --- "Sounds great, you rank 10/10 according to our metrics, here's a grant!"
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Could you provide evidence? How do we differentiate these claims from the many others, in many domains, that blame hidden powers?
- throwawaycrypt0 3y ago
  You are preying on people, that's why you use this type of cult-like language. You can't back up your points with evidence other than vague references to "governments" (which ones?) "scamming people" (who? how? other than "salary deflation" - which country doesn't let people negotiate their salary or has absurdly high inflation?). I'd think by now you'd have listed a good project, but you've only referenced "good projects being suppressed"
- dale_glass 3y ago
  Yeah, no. I remember the days when crypto was supposed to be independent from the government. It was supposed to exist independently, without any central party having to say what was good and wasn't. It shouldn't need any regulation. If crypto has reliability and transparency, then how did FTX happen? Transparency should have made it obvious to everyone something fishy was going on very early on.

jongjong 3y ago

That's because quality projects are being suppressed. Governments have been working hard to destroy crypto's reputation by enabling scams. When I worked in crypto, the projects that were receiving EU government funding were usually scams or had a scam aspect to them. The agencies which were supposed to regulate the industry often turned a blind eye to obvious misconduct and suppressed small projects. Why did FTX get away with it for so long? You think the government had no idea? Even I suspected something fishy and I didn't even try to look. In any case, individuals should be allowed to choose their monetary system and not be coerced into a specific scam which is what the fiat system is. If people could choose who their scammer is, that is already progress from what we have now.

nullc 3y ago
People made SEC and FTC complaints about both FTX and the Earn program at Gemini which received no attention. I think the theory that they're intentionally enabling scams though fails occam's razor. A simpler explanation is that they're lazy and dysfunctional, it's much much easier to prosecute a scam AFTER its vanished everyone money than before.
- jongjong 3y ago
  It reminds me of Grey's law "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice." At that point you may as well admit the system is malicious by design as its complexity facilitates advanced incompetence.
  - nullc 3y ago
    Maybe, but are we worse off with enforcement bodies that fail to go after many things than with none at all? As far as the sponsorship. I think that is largely due to the general advantage scams have: Real systems have limits and honest people will be willing to admit to them. A scam can promise the moon because they're not beholden to the truth or reality. Parties who aren't thoughtful will flock to the scams that promise them all they want to hear: "Our blockchain is green, organic, whole food, and promotes equality for disenfranchised African dwarfs at unlimited scale!" --- "Sounds great, you rank 10/10 according to our metrics, here's a grant!"
wolverine876 3y ago
Could you provide evidence? How do we differentiate these claims from the many others, in many domains, that blame hidden powers?
throwawaycrypt0 3y ago
You are preying on people, that's why you use this type of cult-like language. You can't back up your points with evidence other than vague references to "governments" (which ones?) "scamming people" (who? how? other than "salary deflation" - which country doesn't let people negotiate their salary or has absurdly high inflation?). I'd think by now you'd have listed a good project, but you've only referenced "good projects being suppressed"
dale_glass 3y ago
Yeah, no. I remember the days when crypto was supposed to be independent from the government. It was supposed to exist independently, without any central party having to say what was good and wasn't. It shouldn't need any regulation. If crypto has reliability and transparency, then how did FTX happen? Transparency should have made it obvious to everyone something fishy was going on very early on.